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Police Officers in the Court of Public Opinion with Lance Lorusso



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Gary Pinkerton’s guest is retired police officer and author of When Cops Kill, Lance Lorusso. He shares how today’s society helps first responders more and his experience as he transitioned out of his first responder role. They talk about the changes that police officers have had to do and the importance of writing out your goals and adjusting them.

Announcer 0:04
Welcome to the heroic investing show. As first responders we risk our lives every day our financial security is under attack. Our pensions are in a state of emergency. A single on duty incident can alter or erase our earning potential instantly and forever. We are the heroes of society. We are self reliant, and we need to take care of our own financial future. The heroic investing show is our toolkit of business and investing tactics on our mission to financial freedom.

Gary Pinkerton 0:39
Hello, everyone. Welcome to Episode 108 of the heroic investing show, where we focus on challenges unique to members of the first responders, organizations of firefighters, police officers, EMTs, members of the active duty armed services, and veterans. But we also focus on those that are common to all investors, we aim to provide tools that our audience can use to enable them to secure their family, their future and their retirement. And we help them put in place a solid plan to replace their w two income, or trading time for dollars with passive income so that they can focus on their unique genius, sharing it with the world and making this a better place. Hey, I want to make a quick plug for my friend and mentor Patrick Donahoe and the wealth standard podcast if you haven’t listened to the well, standard radio in a while. For 2018, Patrick started a series called life, liberty and the pursuit of property following john Locke’s comments and his writings from Well, a couple of centuries ago, but john has talked about these really powerful concepts. And so Patrick took his podcast and broke it up into four month long segments, or three, four month long segments, excuse me, and that’ll get us all the way through 2018. And so we’re still in segment one. But he’s got some great interviews in there some great discussions about these concepts that were really the were foundational for our, you know, our founding fathers when they were writing, the Constitution, life, liberty, and the pursuit of property. Of course, we it was changed to the pursuit of happiness out of concern that perhaps people would misunderstand what john Locke meant by a pursuit of property. But pursuit of property really is about things like intellectual property and the feeling the belief that if you do work to create something that won’t be taken from you that your intellectual property will actually provide benefit for you giving people confidence and the motivation to create, to use their unique genius and keep it unique, right. And so, you know, that’s really what what he was talking about what john Locke was talking about, I can’t really wait to dig into that aspect of it when Patrick gets to that portion of his show. But it reminded me of that as I was going through our opening of this episode, and how I open all of the heroic investing, that that’s really my goal, my goal is to help you put in place things that bring passive income protection and passive income. And that’s really what we do apparent in life. But it’s also what Jason does at Platinum properties when it comes to the passive income side of it. So you get the protections in place, you get the passive income in place, and that releases you from the chains of the daily grind, to be able to focus on unique genius, and make this world that we all live in better place. So somewhat selfish, I do a podcast to get you to our world to make my life a better place, I guess. So this episode with Lance lo Russo is just an amazing episode. Lance is a successful attorney, business owner and retired law enforcement officer in the state of Georgia. So I think especially those listeners who serve in the blue will get great value out of this. I mean, Lance was a former officer did a full career in the state of Georgia and remains a very strong advocate for law enforcement, specifically Georgia law enforcement. He serves as a general counsel to the Georgia Fraternal Order of Police as well as lodge attorney for cub counties lodge 13 of the Fraternal Order of Police, and he responds to critical incidents On behalf of law enforcement officers. Lance continues to serve the community as an instructor for Georgia police academies and for a certified as a certified post instructor in taser, firearms patrol officer emergency vehicle operation and legal issues. So, you know, he has done a great job of melding together his current location and his obviously where his expertise lies in being very successful advocacy attorney for law enforcement officers and for the citizens of the state of Georgia. He’s also a prolific writer, and the topics of his books that we’ll get into a little bit during this conversation and I really think you know, He’s just such an engaging speaker. I think you’re really really going to enjoy this interview. But a couple of Lance’s books. He wrote one for law enforcement officers on officer involved shootings called when cops killed. And he also wrote two books on business development with Rainmaker, Coach Robin Hensley that I think you’ll really enjoy. He writes professional journal and newsletter articles. Frequently he’s a speaker, to law enforcement professionals, business owners, healthcare professionals. And you can find more about that on his website at Lou Russo law firm dotnet lo Russo law firm dotnet and that’s ello ru SS o law firm dotnet. So in his primary business, you know, Lance lorusso is a partner in a firm that he started. He’s a problem solver and trusted advisor for his clients. You know, as a litigator with healthcare and law enforcement background, Lance focuses his practice on general liability defense for individuals and also for corporations, medical malpractice, defense, health care law, and catastrophic personal injury and wrongful death cases. He’s an advocate, right, you know, that is the kind of attorney that I think inspires this, especially with a background in law enforcement, I think you’re gonna find that he’s really, really engaging in this interview, but it is a little bit of a longer episode. So I will keep my other announcements to a minimum, please leave us a review of this episode and other episodes that you liked, either on iTunes at heroic investing calm, or you can also do it on my new website at Gary Pinkerton calm and you can always reach out to me with an email to Gary at Gary Pinkerton, calm. And don’t forget, go to Amazon to get a copy of my new book, the one thing that changed everything, a book that I co authored with 25 other entrepreneurs, where we share our stories about how an experience a lesson we learned from the painful life experience has changed everything for us. And we believe when you combine these tales will change everything for you. So thank you so much. And here’s my interview with the amazing Lance Lusa.

Gary Pinkerton 7:14
Well, everyone again, thanks for joining me, we have a distinct pleasure of having Lance lo Russo. And thank you so much for joining us.

Lance Lorusso 7:22
Thanks for having me.

Gary Pinkerton 7:23
So Lance has a very recent book out and he’s got a couple of very well known that I mentioned during the introduction. You have four total, I think, right, Lance? Yes. Right. And so there’s a actually now one novella, a novel fiction story I really love personally, when someone has the ability, the depth to be able to write both fiction and historical recounts. And so what I’d like to do is just talk about your I think it was your first book, but certainly, I think one of the most best known when cops kill the aftermath of a critical incident. Can you talk a little bit about about about that one? Was it the first?

Lance Lorusso 8:00
Yeah, actually, I had written i’d co written a book with a business coach. But this was the first book that I wrote by myself. And I’ve been in law enforcement, since you know, really 1987 88 and had been a firearms instructor since 1991. And really started thinking about what happens when there’s an officer involved shooting, especially when there’s a death, and then listening to what happens in the media, what people think happens after an officer involved shooting. And then I like to read detective novels, and I like to watch them on TV. And it’s nothing anywhere close to what happens in those venues. So I wanted to write the book to first of all, let law enforcement officers know what they can expect in reality, and then hope that I would educate the public and journalists as to what really happens after an officer involved shooting. So I interviewed officers that have been involved in shootings, the officers who have been shot in the line of duty family members who received the phone calls they dread, and it’s everything from the administrative and criminal investigations, a prosecutorial inquiry, and then just having lived with taking a life.

Gary Pinkerton 9:05
And when did you write

Lance Lorusso 9:06
that that was released in 2012. Okay, and about six months later, there was a trial that came up that really made people focus on the book, and that was the george Zimmerman trial right in Florida. So in the whole stand, your ground thing really became a basis for inquiries. And that’s what really led the book to some prominence and all the profits from all my books, go to law enforcement, charity, so I was just very happy that people were paying it and I could donate money. We’re close to about $20,000 in money donated to charities.

Gary Pinkerton 9:35
That’s amazing. Congratulations. So one of the things you just mentioned, there was, you know, a recent public event, newsworthy events, unfortunately happened very too frequently for law enforcement nowadays. But that’s really the subject of one of your other books, blue news, right in your most recent one. How does that affect or maybe a little bit about your book, but then also, please weave in there how that affects officers on the day to day Business of responding to calls and just doing their job.

Lance Lorusso 10:03
Sure, you know, it’s really changed the way they have to do things. Blue news was written about the intersection of media and law enforcement. And I started out with the premise that both sides need each other, they have to get along As matter of fact, I make the comparison of two kids in the backseat on the way to Yellowstone driving 1000 miles and he’s on my side. Now he’s on my side, sooner or later, they have to talk to each other. And right now, there’s way too much going on. That’s leading to dangers for law enforcement. We’re seeing more law enforcement officers ambushed, officers attacked, really not in a fight with a bad guy just attacked for sitting at a red light in a marked patrol car. And really, that has to do with messaging after the shooting in Ferguson, Missouri in 2014. We saw this anti law enforcement bias going around. And I explore that in blue news, one of the people that I interviewed was the person who was in charge of all law enforcement operations in Missouri, for that period of time. And just how the onslaught occurs with misinformation that comes out from sources that are just wrong because of the new cycle to misinformation coming out from sources that are intentionally skewing the news, and then what it’s like to try to correct a misconception. So Ferguson was really a watershed moment for law enforcement to realize that if they don’t tell their story, someone else will,

Gary Pinkerton 11:22
Yeah, someone with an agenda that’s counter to their ability to do their job. And really So you mentioned a lot of misinformation. There’s a lot of Miss agendas, you know, that can tell completely truthful or completely unrelated information doesn’t have to be wrong. But there’s an ability to heat up a debate or heat up people’s impression negatively towards law enforcement or military in a foreign country, similar type thing makes it really, really hard and dangerous to do your job.

Lance Lorusso 11:49
Absolutely. And I’ll give an example from for sending from Blue news. There was the statement that came out that law enforcement was looking like stormtroopers because they were wearing Kevlar helmets. Well, the protesters are peaceful, then we have anarchists and rioters they are not peaceful. So the anarchists and rioters were freezing pint sized water bottles during the day and throwing them at law enforcement officers at night. Well, if you’re wearing a regular campaign hat, and you get a frozen pint water bottle to the side of your head, you may Yeah, but during the day, it was a Hot August, September, CNN would go out there and film and all they would see was these water bottles. So that was very much of a plan to strategy. But as you said, the misinformation actually leads and it happens with our troops, too, that misinformation that someone thinks is a neat news story actually can lead to law enforcement officers being placed in danger,

Gary Pinkerton 12:42
meaning that they were told to take those called our helmets off, or that was the least considered

Lance Lorusso 12:46
Well, part of it. That was one thing that was considered But no, they generated information and misinformation that has led to attacks on officers. And we saw that in Ferguson, for example, Michael Brown was never shot in the back. He was not shot with his hands up. And if you stop people on the street and ask them how many times Michael Brown was shot in the back, you’ll get a number and it never happened.

Gary Pinkerton 13:06
Yeah, that is absolutely crazy. And, and so you know, a lot of our listeners, as you know, are military or individuals that are first responders outside of the United States. And it’s not just here, you know, it’s probably worse in foreign countries, actually. There’s a lot of places that would remind members of the military who were trying to do humanitarian aid and other services in foreign countries, they’ll feel like they’re in, you know, Henderson, because it’s just challenging. You know, there’s a lot of hate American stuff, obviously, out there. So they do with the same challenge that you talked about in blue news. I said in the introduction, we haven’t talked too much about it here that, you know, you learned a lot of this firsthand while you’re wearing the blue uniform for many years for a full career. I want to transition a little bit to those that I have a lot of members of my audience that the listeners that are kind of making that step and it’s what I did, and really one of the reasons I wanted to run this podcast is trying to help people make a transition from being a service provider, whether that’s, you know, a first responder, an EMT, firefighter, active duty member deploying in the military. What thoughts do you have? What personal challenges did you have as you made that transition?

Lance Lorusso 14:11
Well, and I’ll start with an example. I was honored to be in the honorary commanders in 2011 out of Dobbins Air Force Base, and it was just it was quite an honor. And they kept saying it was an honor for us to be there. So you don’t understand what that means. There was a Army Colonel 33 years in the military started out I think, maybe with a GED and was about ready to retire with two master’s degrees. Man, he wanted to go to breakfast with me. So he said, You know, this is scary. He said, All I’ve known as the military since I was 17. What’s this private sector world? What am I going to do? Do you think there’s a place for me? And I said, Well, Mark, I don’t think there’s a place for you. He said, Really? I said, Yeah, you don’t know how to show up on time. You know, you can’t manage anybody. You don’t have to manage yourself. You can’t see a project through to its end. And he said, Is it that simple? I said, Yeah, it’s that simple. Yeah. It’s not just the military. My brother’s retired military. My dad just passed away. You A year ago, this month, he was at World War Two that those lessons that people learn whether it’s in public safety or the military, about pulling your own weight, about taking care of yourself about realizing that you’re part of something bigger, and it’s not all about you, there’s no safety pins for those folks, they don’t need them, they know how to pull their own weight. And when you get out of that environment of the public sector to the private sector, the first thing you need to realize is you have the core skills. And I’m not to say it’s not gonna be hard, but you have those core skills that you need to succeed. And if you rely on those, the ability to talk to somebody, the ability to have a conversation with somebody with a completely different background than you, you’re going to survive, and you’re going to excel in that environment,

Gary Pinkerton 15:45
I think that’s great advice. And I have living here, you know, in northern New Jersey, I have a lot of very close friends that are firefighters and a lot of retired firefighters and police officers. And I see the exact same qualities, you know, we’re just birds of a different cloth. Totally mixed metaphors there. But you know, you know, the same qualities that make you successful coming out of the military, are exactly what I see with other, you know, as you said, public sector, members providing service. And I agree, and what I’ve experienced was a little bit of trepidation early. But honestly, a lot of it was because I was in these circles of going to these job conferences, and we were all feeding off of each other’s I guess, fear or something, I kind of made a, you know, a hard right turn and stepped out, commissioned only, which for a military member. For me, at least, that was very scary. But I’ve have been extremely happy with the experience. I think we’re kind of wired to be our own bosses. And so yeah, all those qualities you just said, are absolutely going to help. And listen, I think that in the 70s, if somebody was trying to come out of the military, that’d be a lot different, a lot of animosity and stuff. But people I almost tripped over people still telling me thanks for my service. And and I say, you know, I’m this guy who’s out there with you. Now, I appreciate you saying that. It’s very humbling. You feel like not deserving I felt not deserving in the military surrounded, you know, by a steel submarine that no one could find, you know, wasn’t walking around downtown Baghdad, or worse, you know, many places in Afghanistan, I felt embarrassed to take those compliments, back then. Now, it’s much worse, you know, not even in the military, but, but I bring that up, because it’s evidence of the support that we have out there. So, you know, with the actual traits that everyone has, that you just mentioned, and the support that they have, and the gratitude from America, you know, my advice is just go get them. I mean, you’re going to have no problems, it’s going to be amazing.

Lance Lorusso 17:41
Well, advice I’ll give you to it. First of all, I slept a lot better knowing that you couldn’t be found under the water. The other thing I’ll say, too, is don’t settle. Yeah, there are enough employers, there are enough entrepreneurs and there are entrepreneurs, just like your listeners who have decided, you know, I can do this on my own, there’s enough out there enough opportunity for you to not settle for the respect that you deserve. Yeah, there are employers who are seeking out people in the military. It’s kind of funny, I’ve talked to talk to a retired cop who loves delivering flowers. And I said, What do you want to do? Why do you want to do that, and it’s really funny, he said it started out on Valentine’s Day just want to do that we take a part time job, they just basically take off and do it as a part time job. He said, I want everybody to be happy to see me. Show up and people are upset. He said, I just want to, you know, have two people happy to see me I’ve, I’ve got a friend who’s a retired Special Forces operator who’s thinking about going to nursing school, just so he can do mission operations in different parts of the world. So you know, it’s the forever servant, the servant’s heart, don’t abandon it, but realize you can be your own servant. And it’s okay to recognize that you’re going to invest some time in yourself. I think the biggest anticipation people have when they come out of the military or when they come out of public service, is am I going to get the same support from my co workers that I got in the military and in law enforcement and firefighting, you know, that those people that those four or five core group of people you’re with, you know, you can count on them for anything. And those people that’ll support you’re out there? You know, there’s some others that won’t, and you don’t need to walk away from them. You need to run?

Gary Pinkerton 19:17
Yeah, absolutely. A lot of lessons I’ve learned and a couple of years worth of journey of personal development. And, you know, I’ve studied Zig Ziglar and Jim Rohn and augmon Dino and a lot of others much more intensively than I’ve ever really read them before. But you know, one of Jim Rowan’s comments is you know, you’re the sum total of five people that you’re around the most And so yeah, if you just stay away from those people that are not good in your world. I’ve had the same exact realization in the circles I travel in now and you know, in the field that the financial services field that I’m in, and my local friends here that are absolutely people that would still die for me they just are not in uniform with me given that situation that opportunity very often. Back to your your thought about entrepreneur not selling, I loved to see that you were a speaker. I’m trying to get into that world myself, I’ve done a couple really motivating opportunities here in the last year. One of the things I talked about I speak about is exactly that. It’s this, you know, the concept of unique genius and taking this opportunity. I mean, I started at 4546. But you can start at any age, you can, you know, Colonel Sanders started his incredible chain of restaurants in his late 60s. But it’s about what you just said, not settling, you know, finding that thing that you’re uniquely good at that everybody else thinks that you’re just a genius for doing it. And you are good at it. Because you care enough and you lose, you lose track of time while you’re doing it. And to speak of, you know, the book, the outliers, the reason Michael Jordan was such a great basketball player and it was natural to him is because he’s done it 10,000 times, right. And so the same thing with our geniuses And so yeah, I absolutely agree with you don’t settle, go for that thing that is that you’re really good at and that people will pay gratitude to you for having done it. So you know, they will pay you, they will, you know, provide things for you and never have to worry, if you focus on sharing your talents with other people, I think that’s, you know, it’s an amazing thing to always remember. And I also like this concept of this new term out there called intrapreneur. And it’s the thing that you spoke about there at the end is it doesn’t have to be entrepreneurial. If it’s not a good fit, some of us don’t have the unique genius that would lend itself well to running our own business. And that’s quite alright. Because we have the talents from what we’ve we’ve learned as service providers to absolutely kill it in somebody else’s business, and be able to lead that team and do amazing things. It’s okay to be a W two employee, you know, if you are sharing your talents, I think it’s amazing. So that was a great comment.

Lance Lorusso 21:43
Well, thank you. Anyhow, one of the people that I like is Brian Tracy. And I think for anybody who’s looking at a big transition like that, the biggest thing about Brian Tracy is he talks about writing out your goals, having goals, writing them out. And you know, it’s okay to adjust them. You know, when you’re running a campus heading, at some point, you may need to adjust a little bit. But the writing, there’s something magical about writing the goals down. And once you do that, you know, you’re going to realize that there’s things that are important to you, there’s things that you thought were important that were not. But the bottom line is when you find the right place to land, you know, if you do what you love, you’ll never work a day in your life. If you look at that w two and said, I can’t believe they pay me this much to do this. I’m having a ball then. chosen wisely.

Gary Pinkerton 22:24
Right. Exactly. Absolutely. So let’s make a little shift here. So you wrote fiction story and novella called peacemaking. And he is a funny story. You mentioned to me that after was produced, Amazon informed you that you just written a Christian thriller?

Lance Lorusso 22:41
Yes, a Christian thriller. I have no idea what a Christian thriller is, but I wrote one but by God, if Amazon says it’s a Christian thriller than it is, the books done very well, I’ve represented some officers and some of them former military, who have been forced to take a life and they had a lot of questions, people asked me what I talked to officers about after they’ve been involved in the shooting. And sometimes we do a lot of silent meditation, sometimes we do some praying. And a lot of times, quite frankly, I watched them just sack out because their adrenaline has hit such a point. And that’s one thing everybody on this podcast probably has in common to the point where your adrenaline is hit maximum, and now you’re coming down, and all you want to do is sleep, when they finally were able to wrap their head around the fact that number one, they had to take a life and number two, somebody was trying to take their life stranger, they have questions, and I’ve represented officers whose parents were involved in the church, more than one his father was a Baptist preacher. And then they took a life. So peacemaking really was a lot of their questions and a lot of the questions that I’ve had personally and it’s about a cops walk with Christ, kind of what questions would come up? And what kind of answers would we get nice.

Gary Pinkerton 23:49
I also wanted to mention that you did a full career in the military. And as I said, in the intro, you now have a very successful legal firm. I wanted to make sure that I got the title out there for everybody to to go and investigate more. It’s lo Russo law firm dotnet that’s last name is ello, RU ss o then law firm dotnet. And on there you can find all of his all of his books

Lance Lorusso 24:12
career in law enforcement, not in the military. I was never I was never a military but now that I’ve I appreciate the honor.

Gary Pinkerton 24:19
Now that’s what I meant. I consider them really the same especially when you go down to go downtown New York City. They’re they’re more inside Baghdad than I ever was. But

Lance Lorusso 24:27
well, as I as I said, the The only difference between your service in mind was your guns were bigger.

Gary Pinkerton 24:32
That’s so yeah, thanks for that clarification. But on the website also, though, you talk about some another member of retired Marine, who was in the jag for a while they’re a master sergeant. I think she was

Lance Lorusso 24:46
Yeah, she’s a retired Master Sergeant. She’s about five foot 11 and he is just incredible. fireball. Retired master Gunnery Sergeant and I’m just honored that that she worked with us every day.

Gary Pinkerton 24:58
Awesome. And so that you There’s quite a bit on here about, you know, some of the charities that you and she and others choose to give back any special charities you wanted to mention or causes. You know, the wellstar Health System is one that’s meant a lot to me in the past,

Lance Lorusso 25:12
We’ve also found a lot of law enforcement charities to support through the book donations. You know, people can learn more about the books at Lance lorusso books calm. And also blue line lawyer calm is my blog, I think a lot of your listeners would find it pretty interesting. Sometimes their Supreme Court cases sometimes are just things that are of interest to me. But you know, it’s having the ability to donate either your time or money. For me, it’s the money from the books. And my time is just so empowering. And you know, I’ve heard people in the military that I worked with in law enforcement said, you know, the thing that I, there were two things that I missed when I was in a war zone one was my time being my own. And they felt bad about being selfish with their time while they gave enough to everyone else. And to and I’ll never forget this, I met a young captain in the army, who was deployed several times, and he was a big Hunter. So he and I had a lot in common hunting. And he said, you know, the hardest thing about being deployed was it’s never quiet. And he described being in Iraq, and between the daytime hustle and bustle or the, you know, the sounds of war, he said, even when it was quiet, I couldn’t get away from the generators. And he described this goal that he had was to find some place on the base where he didn’t have to hear the word of machinery. So you know, that’s anything that you do that kind of gives you a little bit of an escape is worthwhile and serving others. You know, that’s what every all of your listeners are about. Anyway.

Gary Pinkerton 26:35
That’s right. And and so to kind of tie it back there, I’ve done a little bit of hunting. And for some people, it’s maddening, right, you know, like, this is so boring, but but for someone who enjoys hunting, I can imagine that those hours of listening to the sounds of the woods, wood, I grew up on a dairy farm in the Midwest and didn’t have any neighbors really, that I could see at least and it was, you know, it was beautiful to, you know, to see the real night sky, right. And so for me, that was a lot of peace and quiet as well. So I can imagine, I can certainly relate to what he was trying to try to do the same thing on my submarine.

Lance Lorusso 27:10
I really did. I mean, I went hunting in Montana for a couple years in a row. And I’ll definitely go back. But you know, when you’re in the middle of big timber, Montana on the side of a mountain, maybe you hear an elk bugle. But yeah, it’s your own time.

Gary Pinkerton 27:24
Yeah, that’s, that’s gorgeous. That’s amazing. That never occurred to me that that would be presence of noise would be a lack to someone like that, and something that he was seeking, for some quiet. that’s a that’s a really good feedback. As we start to wrap up here, what have we not talked about that you think we’re missing that audience would benefit from?

Lance Lorusso 27:42
Sure. You know, I think I can probably lend this recently at a conversation with a law enforcement officer getting ready to retire probably 30 to 33 years, kind of getting to that point, and try to do this before you get out. Don’t wait until you’re ready to get out to figure out what to do. He started taking a few classes one at a time, he had a college degree. But he thought, Well, I think I want to do X, well, he went to the community college or went to the local college, especially the veterans, you know, you’re going to have GI Bill benefits. And just took one course, take an intro course and accounting, if you thought that was interesting, or investing or something and try it on a little bit before you jump out of the whatever comfortable role you’re in, whether it’s a military, law enforcement, public safety, and jump in with both feet, because that’s the biggest problem of both of those groups. Were deep end of the pool kind of people. And if you jump into something without having a backup plan, or without knowing whether you like it or not, six months later, you may say, you know, this sounded like a really good idea on paper. But this is horrible. Give yourself the benefit to try it on.

Gary Pinkerton 28:46
Absolutely. That’s amazing. Amazing advice. I think back a couple years ago when I was looking at, you know, at that process, and that stress that you’re feeling when it’s getting close, you’re just going to jump at something right and you’ll end up settling just like you start you know, this kind of bringing full circle to the conversation that you without stress without knowledge ahead of time in a low stress environment where the paycheck still coming in, you will just jump at something that meets one or two of their criteria and you’ll end up working somewhere for the wrong reasons.

Lance Lorusso 29:16
And you have worked hard enough and you deserve to do something that you love.

Gary Pinkerton 29:21
Yeah, exactly where we got to end on that. That was a great comment. Thank you so much, Lance. I really appreciate it. The audience got some great, great help out of that.

Lance Lorusso 29:29
Thank you so much. Thank you for your service and let me know if I can ever help you again.

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