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Ken Pasch on Learning to Be a Great Leader



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Gary Pinkerton welcomes Ken Pasch to the show. Ken is an Air Force veteran B-52 bomber pilot and author of On Course: Become a Great Leader & Soar! He shares how he joined the Air Force, what he did when he first got in, and what made him change his path for the rest of his career. He also talks about his journey to become a leader and learning and improving his leadership skills. Now Ken runs Ki Visions and helps develop the leaders of tomorrow.

Announcer 0:04
Welcome to the heroic investing show. As first responders, we risked our lives every day our financial security is under attack. Our pensions are in a state of emergency. A single on duty incident can alter or erase our earning potential instantly and forever. We are the heroes of society. We are self reliant, and we need to take care of our own financial future. The heroic investing show is our toolkit of business and investing tactics on our mission to financial freedom.

Gary Pinkerton 0:39
Hello, and welcome to Episode 126 of the heroic investing show, a podcast for first responders, members of the military, veterans, and anyone looking to improve their financial future and gain some freedom for their time or with their time. We teach America’s heroes how to build passive income, build their startup business and safely grow wealth through real estate and other alternative investments. We help current and prior first responders put protections and systems in place to enable them to build a life where they can focus on their passion, the service or product that they are uniquely gifted to share with the world and be compensated for and lose the time of day while working on that project. You know, I think that is absolutely the best judge of are you fitted well with a project you’re working on or with the business that you’re in? I mean, do you just lose track of all time when you do it? I do I know with personal financial management and talking with my clients, confident that I’m in the right place. And glad that you’re here with me to learn by immersion as we talk to great members of our target audience, first responders, veterans, active duty members of the military. I have a great example of that coming up with me here today. So my name is Gary Pinkerton. And I appreciate you being here. please head over to iTunes or Stitcher and give us a great rating. And please do not hesitate to give me some feedback at Gary at Gary pinkerton.com. That’s Gary at Gary Pinkerton calm.

And today I have with me Lieutenant Colonel Air Force retired Ken Pash. So Ken has a an amazing and storied record, he started off as a b 52 pilots in the Air Force. And he actually caught the tail end or maybe a large, large enough at least portion of Flying V 50 twos over Vietnam to do the conventional bombing runs. That happened, they’re in a very, very dangerous place to be flying a fat elephant. I did a study on this when I was in my joint forces staff college course on command structures. And it was fascinating to me, the way in which we went about structuring this. So the interesting thing is that the B 52, even then we’re actually then we’re the primary asset for carrying nuclear weapons. And so there was a very, very rigid, long process to change, you know, any kind of flight plans for those aircraft when they’re up flying and mission. And so they were controlling this conventional bombing with a nuclear command and control structure. And it was lethargic as the airplane itself was. But the process resulted in these guys just flying down a superhighway getting beaten up pretty badly by anti aircraft guns because they knew they were coming. They knew what time of the day they were coming. And it’s not like it’s hard to see that big old thing flying in the sky. If you’ve not stood next to a b 52. or seen one of them in the air. I recommend you go to an airshow one time and watch that thing fly. It’s just fascinating. But Ken patch flew in those things. And he’s lucky to be around here and has had a great career since then, but has a lot of memories. I think about flying that aircraft. won’t get too much into that on this episode.

What we what we focus on is his career sense. He has been a member of the faculty at Pennsylvania State University, Penn State he’s decorated as a leader in teaching leadership development courses. And then he has started his own company since then. And his company is called key visions or Chi visions. I’m not sure who which it is now he pronounces it too. For us. It’s Kti visions at Cai visions.com if you want to contact him, but the website of course is just k ai visions.com. Can I get into a lot about the work he does. The most recent book that he’s released, called, on course, becoming a great leader. And he relates this to flying an aircraft keeping an aircraft on course, that’s an analogy that’s used very frequently in goal setting and Achieving missions. And Ken does a nice job of talking about how that’s related in his book, to getting leaders to, you know, push the envelope with respect to their own performance and the performance of their team. So it’s not about necessarily developing, as he explains really well. And I questioned him a little bit about this, his his company is about helping a leader helping the people perform to their highest level and therefore get their company or their team to a higher level. So there’s no scarcity of prior military leaders who are able to go out and create a company and you’ll be able to impart some wisdom and, and leadership lessons that they’ve learned in the crucible of battle and in the crucible of just living lifetime in the military. But Ken is, as I said, you know, a combat pilot and has a lot of academic experience in this world as well. So he has a nice combination of true seat of the pants, military leadership, a full career there, and then a full career as a as an academic leader in the arena of executive leadership and advanced courses at Penn State University. So please join me in a really good discussion with Lieutenant Colonel retired Ken Pash.

Gary Pinkerton 6:25
Well, everyone, thanks so much for joining us. And as I mentioned in the introduction, I have a special guest with me today. And yet another Air Force officer, can I think you are the third in a row member of the Air Force. So all those people out there that hear me say go Navy, you know, you can’t say that I’m biased, because I just did three Air Force officers in a row and the army you guys are falling behind. It’s up to you to find your way to my show. But Ken, thank you so much for joining us and important, a lot of wisdom and knowledge for our team.

Ken Pasch 6:55
Well, Gary, I really appreciate the opportunity. And if I can, I can say thanks to the Navy. As an Air Force flyer, we did an awful lot of operations with the Navy. And they provided some of our security and cover when we were in certain situations. So I appreciated them all the time. And I would also like to say thanks to the listeners and primary listeners of your show, because sometimes they go as the unsung heroes, and those of us that depend upon the services. We really do appreciate what they do. So thanks for what you did, Gary, because it promotes them to absolutely

Gary Pinkerton 7:26
Well, I certainly appreciate that. And we’re gonna get into folks, things like rolling thunder and, and some other some throwback operations to Vietnam and in another era, but the B 52 plane that’s still flying out there is what can cut his teeth on. And what he spent at least the first few years before changing course, a little bit in the Air Force. So would you give us a little background of how you joined the Air Force? And that’s a great story. And then what you did for those first years?

Ken Pasch 7:59
You betcha. Yeah. How I joined the Air Force. Well, I didn’t really join as you know, Gary, I was joined. Most people may not remember this directly. But there used to be this thing called the lottery way back when it’s the only lottery I’ve ever won. And it’s called the draft. And I was drafted, one of the last to be drafted. And as my luck would have it, I was in the year group that still was being drafted, but no more college deferments. So I was in my first year in college, and I got this thing I said, No, that’s not on my bucket list.

Gary Pinkerton 8:32
Yeah, no college deferments, meaning that you didn’t get credit for him. You couldn’t come Oh, I see what you’re saying. So you weren’t able to finish college and then go because they needed the body so badly in Vietnam that you just went when drafted.

Ken Pasch 8:44
That’s right. And so most of the other year groups had that college deferment, so they didn’t have to worry about it. My year group did not lucky me. Wow, it actually turned out to be great for me.

Gary Pinkerton 8:55
So nice. So you head off. You were already a pilot. You said I think right.

Ken Pasch 8:59
I wasn’t ready to do as a pilot at the time. I was. I was flying privately. And I had some friends that had a plane and so we’d fly as much as I could. But I was working on my pilot’s license at the time. Yeah.

Gary Pinkerton 9:09
Nice. Awesome. All right. So an affinity to be a pilot, ironically. So did I just tell everyone that I fly under the water I had a private license and flew for probably the first five or six years I was in the Navy loved it. different experience than you had those you’re flying the big fine elephant. Down a what many have been critical. Many crew members had been critical was just a superhighway into Vietnam into all the gunfire, not original, not creative and not safe. I think maybe and maybe we don’t need to get critical. I’ll let you take it where you want. But I did actually, audience I actually did a study on this when I was going to the Joint Forces Staff College, and I was looking at command and control and I was a little bit critical in my review of it because it doesn’t make a lot of sense. And I can’t say that I’ve seen an operation since that was anything like that one. So hopefully We did learn from it, but but kind of over you can for what life was like back there,

Ken Pasch 10:04
You know, when you’re looking at it from that perspective of trying to look at the planners and what their job is, and I’ve never done that job to say that, okay, this is the mission, you’re gonna fly most of the missions that I flew in the B 52, we got an idea of what the target was, because most of them were practice missions, not live conditions. And so we made all the planning and we did all that. But from these perspectives where they were saying story after story after story. And the actual crews were not doing much of the planning, they were just doing the following. There was a lot of criticism at the time. And I hate to criticize people that I don’t know, and I don’t know their job. But when you lose a number of friends, and like I told you, Gary, that I have a friend that I won’t give his name on the air, because that’s not fair. But he used to wear this patch, that he had a one half mission over the North, and his first flight up, he got shot down. And he spent a few years with the accommodations of the Hanoi Hilton, which we kind of tongue in cheek called the prisoner of war camp in Hanoi. And it was due to that, you know, they just for some reason, they didn’t change altitude, they didn’t change heading, they didn’t change airspeed. They just kept flying the same missions, Night after night.

Gary Pinkerton 11:08
Very predictable. Well, he’s lucky man to have lived a full life beyond in spite of that.

Ken Pasch 11:13
Yeah, cuz there was quite a few that did not. Yeah, so yeah. But then after that, most of the other times flying, you know, once Vietnam wound down, most of the other time we were flying, it was not preparation for that conventional mission that we so often No, it was, you know, this prevention being the deterrent against the primarily the Soviets at that time, right, trying to make sure that we were ready, and they knew we were ready, that if they were to do something stupid, they would pay for it dearly. And thank God, none of us after ever had fly those missions.

Gary Pinkerton 11:46
Exactly. Yep. Yep. So I spent a lot of time doing the same thing, just for the most part of the world. Absolutely. In strategic submarines, part of the triad. That’s right. That’s right. But after that you changed paths in the airforce, tell us a little bit about what you did the majority of your career then

Ken Pasch 12:03
Got to a point where I realized that flying was great for me, not so much for family. And so my wife and I decided that I would trade my flight suit for a business suit. And I use my education to run medical centers in the Air Force. And that was a wonderful opportunity. I got some experiences and challenges that at the same point in my career in the civilian sector, I never would have had, because that’s just the way the Air Force system works. And I’m sure that the Navy and the army systems work very similarly. But I got to do some things that I never would have gotten to do in the civilian sector.

Gary Pinkerton 12:37
So getting command at a very young age or making decisions at a very young age. Yeah, yeah. And so you’re right, all the services are similar like that. But I would say probably our first responder audience is very similar as well, I’ve met said, Joe, I met some firefighters that are in charge of people. And they thought, My gosh, I can’t believe looking back on it that at that age, I was doing that. And police officers as well. So, you know, it’s that thing about service. I don’t know why I guess the type of people are attracted to it are individuals that can can hack it at a pretty young age. So you got you know, a lot of times I talk to people who transition out and they’re struggling with finding applicability of what they did in the service. But I think if I’m getting this right, well, you know, I talked, I talked a little bit in the introduction about your background, but you had a pretty directly applicable path that you carried out to great success in the civilian world.

Ken Pasch 13:29
And part of that, and we can talk about the full story if you want a little later. But part of that was because of the leadership opportunities that I had in the Air Force of which I failed at in early.

Gary Pinkerton 13:39
Well, no, go ahead and tell your story talk about that.

Ken Pasch 13:42
Well, when I made that transition from flying to medical centers, I had this one minor role that I really sucked at. And that was this thing called leading. And I not important at all. And how I found out was really pretty funny to at least I can say so now it wasn’t funny at the time at all. But I had this little piece of paper slipped under my door. And on that piece of paper was this very clear graphic of what what some people who I was supposed to be leading thought of my leadership style.

Gary Pinkerton 14:10
Got it. So you got a fitness report from the cruise.

Ken Pasch 14:16
Yeah, not exactly what I was looking for. I’m telling my bosses never saw it, man, that would have been death. But I had to make a commitment to change.

Gary Pinkerton 14:24
Good. So you did and it was in it worked. And so when you came out, you know, you’re retired. You’re retired as a lieutenant colonel right from the Air Force. Okay. Did you do all of that as active? Yes. Okay, got it. Yep, got it. Right. And so you’ve had another full career that you’ve recently retired from again, and this time with, with say, college as an educator, but also as a coach. Right?

Ken Pasch 14:47
And so what I did was I when I came out, I decided I was going to take a dual track because I wanted to start my business and I like a lot of your listeners and and the advice that you give them is to not plan on these pensions, being You know, just complete all the time that dread, they’re going to happen, because they said they would happen while we’re in real trouble there. So I think it’s great that you are taking on that call that will help people understand. All leaders need to have a plan B. And so whatever that plan B is, we need to make sure that we understand that when we’re dependent upon something else, we need to make sure that we have something else in place, just in case, hopefully, it’s never needed. But we better have that. And so that’s what I decided to do take that dual channel track, teach at Penn State, start my own consulting business and take all these leadership opportunities that I had and convert those into courses that I taught here plus working with people and coach them on their ability to become a better leader and help good people unlock, engage and optimize potential. And so it was a great career coming out of the Air Force to do that, after I did what I did in the Air Force.

Gary Pinkerton 15:51
Yeah, as I read and have talked to you about, you know, what you’ve done after the Air Force and how you applied skills that you learned there and things that that you felt that you were good at, or had excelled at, or at least learned some things. And I mean, you’re teaching, it should be from it, I’m sure it was fairly humbling to realize that you were about to launch into a career teaching people about leadership, when you had such a humble beginning that you just shared with us. Right? That is something that obviously you learned a really good some some really good lessons, and felt that you would be able to add value sharing that

Ken Pasch 16:21
you’re absolutely right. I’m scared to death. Yeah, I just love

Gary Pinkerton 16:26
Yeah, of course. And so I think, you know, you’re mentioning having a plan B, I think it’s really, you know, there’s this terminology in real estate, for example, or land use, right, like, it’s this concept of highest and best use. So as you look at a property that’s falling down, whether it be a you know, let’s say it’s a an apartment building, you know, and is that really the highest and best use for that land, given what’s happened in the city around it now? I mean, or is there? Is there a dire need for a hospital? Or no, do you need a gas station, you know, so it can totally change over time. But there’s this continuous search for highest and best use of that property? Well, I think we do the same thing, or should do the same thing for ourselves. And what I mean is that we continue to learn, we continue to pay attention to how people respond to what we’re doing, like we try to add value in one place. And if they start flocking to you like this podcast, right, if, if I stopped getting people who want to be on the show, or I stopped getting listeners, that should be an indication that I’m not actually adding that much value, and maybe some of the other things that I was doing in my life, I should focus more on right. And you mentioned, so everyone can was host for many years of a syndicated radio program, unlock your full potential today. And he had to give that up, because he saw that, you know, there was indications that his value being added elsewhere in his private business was better, right. Am I right on that, Ken?

Ken Pasch 17:46
Yeah, you’re right on point. And so that’s a great thing. And and some of the things that you talked about there, go right back to how I felt at least confident enough to believe that I had something to offer others. Because one of the things that I learned in that failure to lead early on was I had to figure out how to lead because every book, workshop course, I tried, they all told me what a great leader should be. And they were great, great ideas, but trying to apply them was the problem. And so my fix to that was in a crazy thought one night, that’s how it came about. I connected what it took to get an aircraft off the ground into a desired destination with an organization. And so the kind of thing I think you’re talking about Gary right here fits right into this model that we use, which connects the dynamics of flight deleting. And step number one is to point the plane in the right direction. And that thinks that’s what you’re talking about this best use idea is really making sure you’ve pointed the plane in the right direction. I tried to go off, I loved doing radio, I’m guessing you really love doing these podcasts, if you’d like it as much as I did with radio. Oh, it was so much fun. But I needed to get That’s right. There was a dilution of effort there. It wasn’t best use to use your terms. And so I had to point my plane in the right direction, and stop doing something else.

Gary Pinkerton 19:10

Ken Pasch 19:11
And so I think that’s what you’re talking about.

Gary Pinkerton 19:12
It absolutely is. So lead into your book series, your new book, first new book, and then potential series that comes after that, because you made a nice transition there, I think with with that discussion about pointing the plane in the right direction.

Ken Pasch 19:24
Thanks for that. The book, on course, become a great leader in soar just became available through all the major booksellers. So just get that plug out there. But the basis of the book is to help people not just know what to do, but how to do it. And so we introduced this model that we were talking about in the book to give people an idea of the kind of things that you have to really think about and work through. If you’re going to do this on your own. If you’re going to start your own business, you’re going to do something a little bit after you’ve, you’ve retired out of the heroic service that a lot of the folks listening your show do and you have some idea. Well there’s certain things You have to do. And so that’s what we do in the book is try to help people with that. Now, I gotta be honest, I don’t know that the book is really geared towards helping people start a business. And so there are other some other pieces that will help with that. But hopefully, at least the book serves as a complement to some of those other pieces, that when you are putting things together, you are pointing in the right direction, trying to make sure that business is outfitted properly. And then you go into the coefficients of flight, what’s going to get us off the ground? What’s going to give us that thrust to get where we want to go? How do we remove the effects of what some organizations call dead weight? Yeah. And the airplane, we just got a weight. But most organizations have to deal with dead weight. And I’m sure the submarines do this. And I know the guys flying off those carriers worried about this? What kind of drag coefficients are we dealing with? Because you know, there’s not a perfect airframe that has zero drag yet? We haven’t done that. So there’s things that hold us back, what are those things that are holding us back? And then we look at the external conditions. And I can’t speak for the sub Mariners, but I can speak for the flyers you don’t want except for these crazy guys that are weather guys. You don’t want to point that airplane into a thunderstorm. That’s just stupid. Yeah, but some people do that. And then there’s other external conditions, you’re gonna have to figure out how I deal with things like wind, you know, as a flyer would worry about. But there’s regulations that you got to deal with, you know, when you go into the real estate ventures that you’re talking about, there’s codes and all sorts of zoning and all sorts of other things you’re going to have to deal with. Right?

Gary Pinkerton 21:39
Right, exactly. So is this about developing you as a leader or helping a specific company, like leader of an organization? So is it focusing just on the on the holding back the leader the drag on the leader? Or is it the drag on the company and pointing the company into a storm?

Ken Pasch 21:54
My business focuses on people in organizations, that word we hate called boss.

Gary Pinkerton 22:02
Right, right.

Ken Pasch 22:04
But that’s what we focus on. And so whether you are trying to lead your own life as a boss, are you trying to lead the organization and help the people within that organization? Everybody get where we want to go? That’s really where the book is focused on. So that’s what we do.

Gary Pinkerton 22:22
Yeah. Got it. Okay. So this is the first of a few, as we just kind of understood there, the different instruments that make the plane pop up successful mission and come back. That’s right.

Ken Pasch 22:33
Yeah, we like coming back to.

Gary Pinkerton 22:35
Yeah. And there’s a lot of applicability and personal finances, you know, and making decisions about not just your business, but you know, your family, but your finances, getting back from life safely, which means you had enough money left at the end. And live in a, you know, a very valued life after service after our time as heroic investors, as you said, are heroic individuals. So your work now other than the book, what do you do now in your business to develop leadership and individuals? Is it a one on one basis?

Ken Pasch 23:05
We have that possibility? Yes. So basically, there’s four pieces we teach, we mentor, we coach and we consult. So depending upon what the need is of the organization, and we try to work with people at their level of willingness and ability to engage with us, because let’s face it, there’s some people that they don’t have the means they don’t have the time to get in deep with us. Or they’re at the other end of the spectrum where they want to go as deep as we can take them. So we tried to build a business so that we can work with people, wherever they are, and how ever they need us best. And some people like to test us out. And so one of the things we have is what we call our afterburner collection, because afterburners, should only be used in a couple of situations. One, when you’re about to crash and burn, then the afterburner can come in real handy. Or your Tom Cruise and Top Gun and you’re doing a flyby on the tower. And yeah, that’s right, exactly. So those are the only two times afterburners should be used because they suck up a lot of fuel. So that’s one way how people test us because we have just anecdotal pieces, like they want to think on emotional intelligence, or they want to think on communication or they want to think on, you name it, time management, even we get into, and so they want those things. But we have an entire process to help people and we recommend people understand. Just to back up a minute, I heard an ad the other day for a place that said master leadership in a day. Exactly, great, great response can’t happen. leadership has to be a process. And you went through that process in the Navy, I’m sure as you know,

Gary Pinkerton 24:44
Yeah. And not much of it makes much sense when you’re sitting at the Naval Academy listening in leadership classes. I’ve taught those classes and I looked at the glassy eyes of the 20s. And I was just thinking, this is a little bit of a waste of time because you don’t get it unless you experience it. Right. That’s See, you know, you’ve got, I was gonna say Maslow’s hierarchy of learning. I think that might be it. It’s the it’s the inverted pyramid where, you know, reading something doesn’t do a whole lot, but experiencing it physically. And that’s why it’s why firefighters practice non stop hoping they never have fires, right? But they practice all the time. Because physically doing the thing in a simulated scenario is the absolute best way to learn it. Yeah, so you’re right. I’ve heard about it a lot. I heard about this thing leadership, and I got taught by, you know, great fireside chats by people, but not a lot of it mattered until you got out there and got feedback from your subordinates, right? That was the most effective of Chiefs that were twice my age, take me around the corner behind some piece of equipment and say, okay, sir, you look like an idiot. And here’s, you know, here’s what you need to be doing different before the guys are gonna follow you. So well, that’s

Ken Pasch 25:48
one place we have a connection because I was I worked at a tri service course one time down in San Antonio. And I can throw out this name because I absolutely love the man, Chief Charlie cook. I don’t know where he is anymore. But he did take me aside every once in a while, say, hey, let’s talk.

Gary Pinkerton 26:09
Yeah, I love the Navy senior enlisted leaders. I mean, they’re just different. And CEOs and CEOs across the board are just amazing. I don’t know why they do what they do for the pay they get. But they are amazing, amazing individuals. When you think about

Ken Pasch 26:21
why do you think the people that are listening to your show do what they do? Because they have that sense of purpose. They have that sense of responsibility? They have that sense of commitment. I think that the pay is secondary, you’re up to date.

Gary Pinkerton 26:32
It’s a dangerous team. That’s right. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, good points. None of the people who are running into fires or gunfire are are getting paid what it’s worth to do that.

Ken Pasch 26:44
There is no pay work, if that’s right.

Gary Pinkerton 26:45
That’s absolutely right. That’s a great reminder. Ken, what have we not covered that we need you to tell our audience?

Ken Pasch 26:51
Well, you know, we could get into so many different things. Like, one of the concerns that when we talk about leadership is there’s an awful lot of myths out there, Gary certainly are. Yeah, one of the things I think we should maybe do is just get into one or two of these myths to show people that just because you’ve heard something doesn’t make it true, like, leaders must be born. I hear people telling me, I don’t have those attributes. There’s no way I can be a leader because I think people have this belief that since communication is so important to the leaders role, that I got to be this charismatic orator in order to be a leader. And that’s just not true.

Gary Pinkerton 27:31
Yeah, I would actually say the opposite. It’s probably more true, you know, because I believe that the keys to good leadership are humility, just, you know, no hubris, and also not being as blowhard that you know, just pontificates about themselves. And you know, and goes on, I think, again, I think being humble, being a little bit of an introvert when it’s time to go talk to people makes you be more concise. So yeah, I agree. That is absolutely a myth. There certainly is no such thing as a born leader.

Ken Pasch 27:57
I’ve never seen a leader come out of the womb. No, I have seen, they just don’t. I have seen people who have incredible characteristics that make that path easier. But they don’t just naturally know how to do this stuff. It takes experience like you were talking about and trial and error, no trial by fire if we want to go that way. Yeah, that’s right. So yeah, it’s one of these things that we really just have to figure out. It’s funny that you use that term. I’m part of a Toastmasters club. And I’m the word master tonight. And the word I have to express with the people tonight is hubris. And the problems that that can create,

Gary Pinkerton 28:35
Yeah, there’s a there’s a really good, I can’t think of the name of the article now. But my boss when I was in command, the squadron commander had all this, the commanding officers up for a meeting and he passed out this, this article written by actually, I think they were MIT professors. But it was about that concept of hubris. And it was a Babylonian and I want to say, example of a leader who went awry because of his his lack of humility. I still remember him looking around the room. And we were talking about this because the commanding officer had an kind of an inappropriate relationship, not a sexual relationship, but just an inappropriate with respect to how he approached individuals at ROTC unit, I think it was, so he looks around the room. And he goes, look at the guys next year. He’s like, I don’t know what you see. But I see a bunch of old worn out guys. If young people start going, you know, basically, his point was, you know, people get in trouble with hire to help their secretaries were young members of their organization. Because they get they start believing their own press, not because they just automatically turned into the most handsome young individual on Earth. So it is a pretty good lesson that I’ve never forgotten. Anyway, that’s a little bit off topic, but entrepreneurial myth.

Ken Pasch 29:50
Yeah, no, that’s that’s right on topic because I think what happens next is, the next myth would be I’m a leader because I’m in a leadership position. Well, technically There’s some truth to that, because people probably put you in that position because they expect you to lead where the myth comes in is that somebody measured me and made the determination that I already am a good leader. And that’s why they put me in that position. And that’s not true.

Gary Pinkerton 30:15
So that’s what I call the arrival syndrome. I’m here, I don’t need to keep learning and studying and doing that stuff. You know, I can make a direct parallel to the Navy and submarine leadership, we we are qualified, like in my 19 years to get the Commander 18, or whatever it was, I was never once not one moment was I in a position where I wasn’t studying for the next position, you know, whether it be qualifying for a watch at sea, or a nuclear position, or department head position, or executive officer command, or, you know, there’s always that one thing, and then when you get to command, there’s no more qualifications. And so I think that leads to the same kind of thing. It’s a rival Central, that’s a dangerous place to be at. But you see so many people there,

Ken Pasch 30:56
You really do. And if I hope people will take this the right way. For me to stay up with my clients and my competitors. I read 50 to 60 books a year. Yeah. And most of those are on leadership. And that’s, I’m supposed to be the expert on this. Well, that path will never stop. I mean, I have to continue to grow as a leader, if I want to be credible.

Gary Pinkerton 31:20
So it’s a constant reminder of how much knowledge is out there. That’s not coming from your between your ears, right? No way.

Ken Pasch 31:26
I mean, there’s, I mean, there are so many people, that I’m so grateful to so many people, whether it’s john Maxwell, Covey, you know, and some of those that are a little bit older in that game. But some of the newer ones like Simon Sinek, his book on why start with why oh, my gosh, that’s incredible, or tribal leadership, or I could just name them off and off. They’re just phenomenal books. And it really helped me do that much better for my clients. No,

Gary Pinkerton 31:51
Right. And it keeps you grounded, it keeps you realizing that it prevents hubris, and it prevents a rival syndrome, that there’s going to be a lot more to learn. Those are two really key. I mean, you’ve kind of approach them from the perspective of myths that they’re necessary or that they’re there. But I would say those are huge pitfalls. And those are great that you brought those up, if you can avoid those two, hubris and arrival syndrome. Man, you’re got a serious leg up in your company surviving or whatever your venture is absolutely. Probably remaining married.

Ken Pasch 32:23
Well, here’s how I put it. Whenever I got promoted in the Air Force, I just realized that my wife got another star, right?

Gary Pinkerton 32:32
You will always be out ranked. That’s always can man This has been amazing. I’m sure there’s a dozen myths. But at risk of going too long for the podcast, I want to call circle back again. And please. I mean, I know the book is available at Amazon and everywhere we get books. But please go to the title and kind of the big takeaway the book and how it would apply to the audience. And we’ll close there,

Ken Pasch 32:54
you can go to my website, if that’s easier to find it because it’s obviously directly there. www.ky visions calm and key is spelled kainai. It’s a Japanese term, or the major booksellers, the name of the book is on course, become a great leader and soar. And one of the things you’ll find on the cover is a heading indicator. Nice. Yeah, some people call that the directional gyro. But it’s what we call it was the heading indicator. And it is such an important instrument for leaders to get themselves on course, and then get their teams on course. Because if we do that internally, we will make such a difference in not just our life, but a whole bunch of other lives.

Gary Pinkerton 33:33
That’s amazing. Everybody, go get the book. I’m right in front of you. And Ken again, thanks so much for joining and imparting some wisdom on our audience.

Ken Pasch 33:41
Gary, I really appreciate the opportunity. And once again, I thank your audience for all the things that they do for all of us out here. We really appreciate it.

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