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Creating a Profitable Airbnb Portfolio with Nate Secor

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Gary Pinkerton starts the episode by introducing Jason Hartman’s new podcast and sharing his thoughts about Jason’s interviewee, Nate Secor. Nate talks about his evolution from long-term to short-term rentals and the mistakes he made along the journey. They also discuss what to look for in a property for a short-term rental, how to split responsibilities if you have a partner, where to find furniture and housewares, profit margins, and business planning.

Announcer 0:04
Welcome to the heroic investing show. As first responders, we risk our lives every day, our financial security is under attack. Our pensions are in a state of emergency, a single on duty incident can alter or erase our earning potential instantly. And forever. We are the heroes of society, we are self reliant, and we need to take care of our own financial future. The heroic investing show is our toolkit of business and investing tactics on our mission to financial freedom.

Gary Pinkerton 0:38
Hello and welcome to Episode 153, of the heroic investing show. So it’s been a little while since I put out some episodes, I’ve been traveling all around the country. So I truly, truly appreciate your patience, but I got a huge backlog. And so I should also apologize to those who have kindly done interviews with me, and are being patiently waiting for me to get these up and running. I’m going to kind of front load a bunch of my current episodes to get these very kind individuals out there and to share that content with all of you. And then I’ll circle back and start to get some more of Jason’s best of the best with him interviewing individuals over the past few years. So you’ll see those coming up. But this is one that I want to make sure I get out there because it’s current and relevant to a trend that’s happening in the real estate world. So this podcast, as you know, is for first responders, members of the military, veterans and anyone looking to improve their financial future and gain some freedom with their time. We’re teaching America’s heroes, different techniques, different abilities, some lessons learned on how to build passive income, build their startup business, maybe, and safely grow wealth through real estate and other alternative type investments. So on this one, Jason is well, I’m introducing you to a new podcast that Jason’s been running. It’s called the short term rental profits podcast. And Jason’s interviewing a legend in that industry. It’s a very short industry. So it doesn’t take too long to become a legend. But this guy is awesome. So the gentleman’s name is Nate Sikora. And I had the opportunity to spend some time with Nate in Philadelphia, and again up in New York City. At the end of, you know, springtime, beginning of summer, as part of venture Alliance mastermind and an event that Platinum properties was putting on there. And Philadelphia, he knows this industry extremely well. So he’s doing short term rental. And I’m sure there are a couple of different methods that you can do short term rentals. So what Jason is talking with clients and listeners about frequently is the idea of purchasing a property and then renting it on a weekly basis or a shorter term, maybe monthly basis than on a typical annual basis. And my wife, Sue, and I just did this with a property in St. Augustine, Florida. And we’re closing on it here shortly, new construction, and really excited to see how this thing is going to go. So if you have any questions about how it’s working out for us, and lessons we’ve personally learned, I learned all kinds of stuff like hotel fees, different tax rates, flood insurance, and things like that associated with having properties on the coast, I learned a tremendous amount already. And we haven’t had the first person say there yet. So more lessons coming. So that’s the idea of owning the property, and running it that way. So what Nate is going to talk about what he does with his personal business? You know, it’s both all of the aspects of Airbnb and the platforms and the abilities to use this. But there’s another way to do this, it’s to sublease. So in areas where you can lease a property, lease an apartment, lease a house, and then turn around and not actually live in it, but sublease it out or rent it out on a daily or monthly or weekly basis, you can do an arbitrage, right? So you’re, you’re renting it, let’s say $5,000 a month, you know, pretty nice high end property. So that comes down to Gosh, 5000 is I shouldn’t be doing this math in public here. But it’s 100 and some dollars a day, right. So maybe a $5,000 property like that you could rent it out for $400 a day, I don’t know, I’m just throwing numbers out there. But you can get a large arbitrage on a daily perspective of renting this place out. So he’s doing that he’s not actually owning and getting mortgages and stuff like that on the properties. In most of his cases, he is leasing the thing and the turn around and renting it out. And management via Airbnb, it’s a very quick way with less capital to get the thing up and running. Now some of the things you have to worry about or think about is that maybe that’s not legal in a specific area, because this could be a place where you know, they don’t want a lot of partying going on, right? So what you want to do is you want to find an Airbnb or short term rental friendly neighborhood. And that’s really what kind of Jason’s team, my wife, Sue and the others are bringing to, you know, the value they’re bringing is helping you find locations where this is an acceptable way to run a business. And so I’m excited about it. I think you’re gonna learn a ton from Nate. And next episode Wednesday, I guess we’ll we’ll be back with a bunch of fresh and new veterans. First responders, people that I’ve talked to that have a tremendous amount to share with others specifically from their own personal story, and maybe even in a service that they provide. So hang in there. And thanks again for your patience and getting this back on track. We will be back with you. And just a couple of days. Thanks so much.

Jason Hartman 5:21
It’s my pleasure to welcome Nate support to the show. I’ve known this guy a long time and he has some incredible experiences with Airbnb. He is the self proclaimed everyday, average Joe, who is better than average at Airbnb, and it’s good to have him on the show today, mate, welcome. How are you?

Nate Secor 5:40
I’m doing great. It’s good to be here. Jason, it’s good to have you. Where are you located? Personally, I live in Costa Mesa, right here in Orange County. Good stuff.

Jason Hartman 5:48
My old home Orange County, California. Well, you have been doing some good stuff with short term rentals lately. And how did you get your start? How long ago was it? You know, you had lots of experience in the long term rental side of the industry years ago, when I first met you tell us about the evolution of short term rentals for you.

Nate Secor 6:08
It’s funny because they tie together the very first property that I did Airbnb with even the first time I really was exposed to the possibility of it was a listing that I had, and the seller was very impatient. He wanted his house sold in like two weeks. And I told him, you know, just give me another couple of weeks, and I’ll sell it and he was really impatient. And I had already previously negotiated a lease option that I was going to do with him. So at the time, he had told me, he also did Airbnb in that house, and he was getting, you know, 6000 $7,000 a month and I, I really believe that he didn’t really know what he was doing and wasn’t the greatest business person, I thought, well, if he can get six or seven grand out of this house, I think I could. So I leased a lease option that from him on a four year lease option, which was pretty cool. My payment on that was 3520. And eventually I worked the average monthly rent up on that property to about maybe 11 or $12,000. And so at that point, I was hooked on Airbnb, that was my very first end, what year what year was that? Like, a year and a half,

Jason Hartman 7:20
two years ago? So it’s 2016? Maybe? Yeah, okay. Well, yeah, that’s great. That’s great. So now you’ve got 13 properties that you’re doing a short term rentals, is that correct?

Nate Secor 7:32
Correct. And that one actually is a one of them because they have a lot. Airbnb, Ms. City. Right. Right. But it did give me my start.

Jason Hartman 7:38
Okay, good, good stuff. You know, that’s a fair thing. I’m glad you mentioned the regulatory component. Maybe we should just talk about that for a moment. How much does that concern you? I remember when I lived in San Diego for just about a year, you know, I used to see signs all over these beach neighborhoods. You know, they were anti short term rentals. They say, you know, neighborhoods are for, I can’t remember what the signs used to say. But there was just a lot of reaction, very negative reaction to people that own these expensive homes near the beach. And, you know, their neighbors were renting them out of short term rentals. And they were getting super annoyed by it. What do you think about the regulatory climate? And by the way, where was that property? Did you mention that? Or did you want to mention that what city Lake Forest California which so Lake Forest in Orange County is outlawed? Airbnb, right, or short term?

Nate Secor 8:30
forest is definitely one of the just no Airbnb studies, basically. Yeah,

Jason Hartman 8:36
yeah. Okay. And when you use the word Airbnb, by the way, are you using that generically to apply to all short term rentals? It sounds like that’s your favorite platform. But just Yes,

Nate Secor 8:48
yes. And you know, we probably won’t have time to get into it. But as of right now, that’s actually the only platform I use. And I have used other ones some totally familiar with, you know, most or all the other platforms. But yeah, I only use Airbnb.

Jason Hartman 9:02
Good stuff. Okay. So regulatory environment concerns, just that I asked you that.

Nate Secor 9:07
Definitely, it’s something that is important to keep your eye on. You know, in terms of the United States, I don’t see a lot of regulatory concerns over the next five years. If you look at certain geographical areas, though, for instance, Southern California, it’s definitely were like a hotspot for regulatory issues.

Jason Hartman 9:28
Well, New York City is to

Nate Secor 9:30
New York City, San Francisco, you know, like some of these big cities, definitely. You have to keep your eye on it. Again, those still become five or 10% of the whole Airbnb possibilities across the US and remember Airbnb works in the whole world. So right,

Jason Hartman 9:46
okay, good, good. Okay. So, your experience, you were just kind of given your background there in terms of it and, and so you got hooked. You know, as a traditional realtor, you had this listing, the property wasn’t selling quickly, and seller was impatient. You did the lease option for four years, which is quite an amazingly long lease option term. So congrats on that. And then you turned it into an Airbnb and did very well with it right

Nate Secor 10:12
until now actually have a sandwich lease option because I just have a tenant in there. And they’re at 4550 or 4600. So, you know, it’s still good, but not as good as when it was an Airbnb.

Jason Hartman 10:25
Yeah, fantastic. Okay, good. So what was next after that?

Nate Secor 10:28
I think that around that time, you know, there were a couple other properties I floundered with. And you know, maybe I’ll share real quickly, I made a mistake and bought one that was a little bit expensive. And it was like a $2 million neighborhood, but it was sort of like the neighborhood you’d want to live in, but not necessarily vacation. So you know, there are mistakes, people can make an Airbnb, so I’ll just throw that out there, I was able to unwind that property pretty quickly. And then, so far, at this point, now I focused on cities where they actually collect the tax. And I just made a good name for myself, I have several my properties are two from the same owner. So at this point, I have people coming to me and telling me they want to do more properties with fantastic.

Jason Hartman 11:11
So you focus on cities that actually collect a tax on purpose, then that’s kind of counterintuitive what you just said in some ways, because most people would say, Well, I don’t want to pay a tourism tax. Right. You know, you know that the cities that collect the tax, like the revenue, so they’re unlikely to change and go against the short term rental business, if they’re getting paid. Right.

Nate Secor 11:33
Yeah. And in my conversations with those cities, at this point, it does seem that they’ve made a conscious effort that they are going to work with the vacation rental companies, and they prefer the revenue versus, you know, not having the revenue and not having the headache. So many ways. The conversation with them is completely different working with the city’s it’s more like, Oh, you know, it’s okay. If like, you know, I know that they had a party there. And there’s no way you could have known about that. So thank you for taking care of it as soon as you found out about it. And then of course, cities that are not collecting money are like me to get out of my city. Yeah, right. Exactly. Exactly. Well, that’s, that’s always the way it works, you know, follow the money. That’s, that’s good. Good stuff. So what tips and things have you learned, you know, what tips can you share with our listeners, things that you’ve learned whether they be, you know, just general advice, so technology apps, things that smart home stuff, take care, everyone ate my number one app that is both very economical and very useful, I would say a smart b&b. Even if you have one listing, if it were me, I would definitely get smart b&b, I think it comes out to about $8 per listing, and you only get charged in the month that you have a listing. So if you rent out your house for three months out of the year, you know you’d pay $24. So smart b&b without, you know, getting too much into it. I’ll let the listeners do their own research. But basically, it’s a the best feature of smart b&b is that it has automated messaging, so that you’re really able to deliver good customer service without using any of your own time. So a lot of my messaging to my clients is like, You’re welcome. Great. And awesome, because I’ve already sent them all the information automated, and then they’ve just said, Oh, thank you so much. And then I just say You’re welcome. Right, right.

Jason Hartman 13:28
So the smart BMV basically is like a bot. It has this sort of prefab answers, right? Is that what you’re saying?

Nate Secor 13:35
Yeah, of course, customize online for each property. Yeah. But you know, I have you know, pre check in check in the day after the day before they check out the day after they check out like, you know, they get about seven letters throughout their stay. You know, a lot of the feedback that I get is like, you know, amazing customer service.

Jason Hartman 13:56
Made to robot. Oh, that’s great. That’s great. Okay, so smart, b&b, any other apps or technologies in general?

Nate Secor 14:03
Well, again, I mentioned earlier that I use Airbnb. And I consider Airbnb, a technology. And a lot of other companies are not just up a level of Airbnb in terms of simplicity. That would be my recommendation. And I’m not going to totally get into why again, just based on time, but my recommendation is for anyone looking to scale beyond one, two or three properties, I would focus on Airbnb and personally even if you were going to do one, two or three, I would still only use Airbnb. It is a pretty amazing technology. The client pays about 10% you pay 3% and the way that I look at it is I’m paying 10% for marketing and all the technology and you know they do the rest. What is

Jason Hartman 14:47
your second favorite platform after Airbnb? Do you like VR Bo, or any of the others? Are they just all we’re very far behind

Nate Secor 14:59
first certain home vrb o homeaway, which is now one company is going to be a platform that people will need to use. And you know, it’s hard to say what the differences exactly some people feel that that platform is better. For homes that book for longer vacations, say like a week or more. It’s definitely my second favorite, I have used it, I have gotten long term bookings for it with you know, again, just to keep it super brief. The reason that I only use Airbnb, is because, one, it’s more scalable to use one. And then to, like, you know, if I had 25 reviews say to split up, I’d rather have all 25 on one platform, instead of say, 12 on one and 13 on the other.

Jason Hartman 15:44
Right. And I actually think there’s enough users on Airbnb for most cases, that if you’re, you know, high profile on Airbnb, you got enough of the market there. Yeah, I got it, I get it. Okay, so what is your target property? How do you pick a property that you want to turn into a short term rental property, you know, markets, price ranges, bedroom count, there are so many things to think about a lot of variables high end, low end, middle market, close to what amenities and so forth, give us some guidance there.

Nate Secor 16:18
I like bigger is better for me. So you know, five bedroom, four bedroom, I also like studios, because they’re super cheap on the rent side. Overall, what I would say, though, is my business plan, if you will, at least where I’m working right now, it’ll change if I go into different cities, but my business plan is $100,000 average per property per year at 35% margin. So you can do the math,

Jason Hartman 16:44
explain what that means a little bit 100,000 per property per year, or 35% margin, meaning each property is netting you 35,000 a year, right? Correct. Yeah. And how do you calculate net, though, just net net or, you know, I always want to ask that, because there may be some complexity to that math, if you you know,

Nate Secor 17:06
you’re just trying to think if there’s any other expenses that are not included in that, not especially

Jason Hartman 17:12
not that I can really think of I mean, particular age of the properties, you talked about how you like the big ones and the real small ones.

Nate Secor 17:19
I like the morphic stuff, the better. So I’d rather pay a premium for a nice property. But you know, it’s not the only factor, obviously, you know, lower rent helps as well, the apples to apples, I like bigger properties that are more fixed up. And like I like the best of the best. So, you know, if one property cost double say, and that was on the sand, versus say another property was half as much, then it was, you know, one row back from the sand or like, like if one property was a penthouse in a building. And then the other property was, you know, on the first floor in both rents were fair, like say one was, like 6000 a month and one was 3000 a month, I’d probably rather get the $6,000 a month one.

Jason Hartman 18:06
Okay, so the more premium property and then how are you pricing them? Are you using the pricing tool built into the Airbnb system? Are you using something outside of it like some of the others that we’ve had on the show where you know, where they help you with pricing and such? What do you do?

Nate Secor 18:23
I believe those programs can help Cameron rot the top of my head what my first choice would be I know I heard it, but I’m not using most I priced them all myself. I know my market really well. I also know what I pay for rent. So it’s usually based on that depending on the ceaselessly it falls as we get closer, and it’s kind of like I go a little bit by like my field. And sometimes I’m a little bit off, and I take notes and then you know I improved so I prefer to do it that way. There are companies anyone can Google there’s there’s a couple of them. You just Google what’s the best company for Airbnb? And I think like two of them will come up. I can’t remember their names right off the top of my head. I think they’re both good. I don’t think the Airbnb one is really great. Sometimes. If I’m ready to just like toss a few days. Basically I like whatever I’ll use the Airbnb for like some of the like last minute weekdays. But I don’t use them. They do not seem correct for weekends at all. And they also don’t usually seem correct for high season that’s safe six months away. In other words, they’re they’re estimating low for those things. That sounds great. They might say Oh, offered at 350 and I’m renting it out for 700. So that’s not gonna work. Tell

Jason Hartman 19:38
us about some of the parameters you’re setting on your rentals, are you you know, are you willing to rent them for one weekend night? For example, if you just if someone wants to rent for just Saturday night or do you require them to take it for Friday, Saturday, Sunday, or do you have a night minimum or a weekly discount or longer term discount, anything like that?

Nate Secor 20:00
Yeah, that’s a very good question, I’m gonna answer it as best as I can, in a short period, that’s probably a big topic that, you know, when I do create that online thing that I’ll probably spend a lot of time on. So what I do is I stagger it. So that let’s say in January, my summer, I’ll probably have on all my properties, five to seven day minimum, because it’s far enough out, that’s just what I do. And then if it’s January, by the time February is coming around, I should be like 50 to 80%, booked. And at that point, February, will have like, no restrictions at all one day minimum. And then March might have a two day minimum. And then April might have a three day minimum of May, you know, for slight kind of stagger as it gets closer, because I want to get, I don’t want to have, you know, 22 bookings in a month for. And I also don’t want somebody on January that book one day, on July 4, the topic sentence. Yeah. Sounds a little more complicated than that. But that’s basically the gist of it is that as I get closer, I get more flexible.

Jason Hartman 21:07
Right, right. Okay, good, good stuff. So any other parameters you’re putting on the rentals,

Nate Secor 21:13
I just wanted to go back real quickly on the margin, because you were asking about the margin. And the numbers that I explained may not make sense when I say about 100,000 a year and 35%. So the expenses on there would probably be 40%. Rent. And then you have, of course, your cleaning fees, and then Airbnb fees, and, you know, miscellaneous fix up. And you know, on a $10,000 month, again, my goal would be to make 3500 off that property. So just in case people were thinking my numbers didn’t add up on that. Right. Okay,

Jason Hartman 21:47
I want to ask you about operationally, do you visit your properties much? Or is everything pretty much done remotely? I find that with a lot of the owners, I talk with that, you know, the housekeeper is like the de facto property manager, if you have a good one. Yeah. And that just would like you to address some of the operational issues there.

Nate Secor 22:11
That’s a great question, too. And I have a partner that I brought in, gets paid 30% leaving I should have mentioned that at the beginning. I’m not sure he makes 30% to housecleaner is really important, but he’s my go between between the housekeeper and all the guests. He is, again of someone’s looking for who they would get for that super customer service oriented ex military, just handles stuff like very organized creates lists. And that’s not my, my jam, per se, I’m more big picture. Right? And so basically, what he does is allow me to work on the business end of it talking with people like you and, you know, looking into other markets, and how can I, you know, create management out of this for people who want to do their own airbnbs. And like all these other areas where there’s revenue to be made, I can focus on all that. And basically, the business side of it, what I handle is I handle pre booking messaging, which is like more of the sales side of it handles post booking messaging, right? That’s a good way to divide it now. Is he in the app with you this customer service person? Or how do you actually operationally do that? Are you using the same app password? Or what do you do? Yeah, another great question, actually, because Airbnb allows you to have what’s called a co host, okay, we both see all the messages, okay. And then if I, for instance, wanted to create another opportunity in another state, I could create co hosts in that other city, or their messaging, and then I see all all of it and all the cities, but the co host only sees what you know, they’re responsible for so they don’t get bogged down by, you know, Orange County messaging and stuff like that. So another nice piece of technology by Airbnb, on management, easy.

Jason Hartman 23:59
So you could have different co hosts in different cities, then we’d like if you have properties in, you know, one city versus another city, you’d have different co hosts in each place, but you’re the host. And then you assign different co hosts for each group of properties in that city. Right? Correct. Yeah, fantastic. Okay, good. Good. How do you find this person? What do you call them? I mean, I really do like ex military people, I find that they tend to be awesome to work with. But like, did you put a Craigslist ad out? And did you say, property manager, vacation rental manager, usually, that would gravitate to our people like with a real estate license, and this person

Nate Secor 24:38
doesn’t need a license, do they? They don’t need a license. He does have a license. I’ve known him for 10 years or so I consider him a friend. But at the time, when I created this with him, we didn’t have any other business involvement together. So it was you know, sort of I circled back to and thought this person would be good at this and I actually had a couple Other ones already, I still keep those separate because they just do so well. Those ones are more like 50% margin. So I keep those, but I have the other ones with him. And I just thought he would be good at it. And I knew that I couldn’t do. My goal is maybe between 30 and 60 properties here in Orange County, and I just thought I’m not going to be able to do it. And to be honest with you, I don’t really, I’m not a real huge fan of working with the customers and stuff. I’d rather work on the business. And he can do all that.

Jason Hartman 25:29
Yeah, yeah. Okay, good. Good. And so he just gets 30%. Of what? Of the rambley? Right, yeah. Okay. Do you pay that like on a per property basis? Like, are you paying him constantly, or you’re figuring it all out once a month, or just, I love that you’re sharing all this because he was

Nate Secor 25:49
salary right now, as we, as we’re in rapid growth, a lot of the money obviously, is being reinvested into more properties. Different people have different ways. Some people like to do a studio or, you know, it takes 500 bucks or 1000 bucks to furnish it. And you know, it’s real cheap. I do bigger properties require bigger, you know, lease payments and bigger deposits, sometimes even two months deposits, and then all the furniture, so it can be a $30,000 investment on a property. So there is some repayment of that that happens. Yeah,

Jason Hartman 26:22
I was gonna ask you where you buy the furniture and any tips there, but go ahead down, they ping the ping the co host. First.

Nate Secor 26:28
There’s some repayment of that goes on. He’s on a salary, but it’s like the amount of future revenue that he’s going to be getting is pretty exciting for him. So he’s totally cool with being on a salary and I don’t actually take any salary. But once it’s all caught up, and everything’s paid all reimburse myself my 70% compared to the 30% that he got while he was on salary, and then his income probably in you know, three to six months will be going up very sharply, and because a lot of that payback will have happened. So make sense.

Jason Hartman 27:02
Yeah. Yeah. Good stuff. Okay. So furniture and housewares. I know we got to wrap it up, but just want to touch on these items to my favorite places

Nate Secor 27:10
that I get the majority of my stuff because I do like pretty good stuff. Let’s say Amazon is one of mine for a lot of the beds and mattresses. zenus is a company that I use for both of those. They’re good and inexpensive. memory foam mattresses and stuff. zenus mattresses. I’ve never even heard of that when there’s all these new mattress companies, you know? Yeah, they must be killing it. Because just myself, I’m buying tons of matches.

Jason Hartman 27:35
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So memory foam mattresses. Yeah. $299 for Queen zenus.

Nate Secor 27:41
Yeah, okay. Yeah.

Nate Secor 27:44
And then Costco is one of my big vendors. I’m steering away from IKEA. Like, I used to get a few things there. And at this point, I’m like, No, I try to you know, have a bit of a design with my homes. I don’t like to just do super cheap. So even like, I just bought a like a whole storage full of a lady a stagers garage, you know, like, so she has better quality stuff that I can mix in that makes my homes look a little more unique than like IKEA and stuff like that. So Amazon and Costco are the top two. Okay, good. Good stuff.

Jason Hartman 28:17
Anything else you want us to know, Nate before we wrap it up? And please feel free to share any contact info website, whatever about you, you know, that you want in? You know, or Twitter account? And anything? Just any closing thoughts?

Nate Secor 28:30
Yeah, well, the less social media I use the seems like the more money I make. So I don’t really look at social media right now. If anyone wants to reach out to me my cell is I would text me too. I pretty much leave my mailbox full because I don’t answer my phone. And so text me at 714-623-2959 if you want to collaborate or talk about, you know, Airbnb, and then closing thought I would say is, you know, I think that what you’re about is empowering people to be responsible for their own finances in their own life. And what I would say is, consider doing one Airbnb, even if that’s not the main thing that you do, and it could be something that adds two to $4,000 a month, your income. And I think that for most people in the US that extra two to $4,000 a month would make a difference in their life. So yeah,

Jason Hartman 29:19
no question about it. And I’ll tell you something, like everything in life, Nate, you just got to do it. That’s the best schooling ever is just actually doing it. And so many people are afraid to do stuff, you got to just do more stuff, make more mistakes, you know, yeah.

Nate Secor 29:34
And I’m still afraid of things. And I sound like afraid every day because I’m just always going bigger. Yeah. And, you know, it’s not for sure gonna work out. But you know, it’s definitely not going to work out if you stay afraid and do nothing.

Jason Hartman 29:46
Yeah, that’s for sure. Well, good. Nate’s a core. Thank you so much for joining us. And thank you for sharing all of your great insights. We really appreciate it.

Nate Secor 29:59
Absolutely. Thank you, Jason.

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