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How Demographics Are Foretelling Serious Problems with Dr Robert Cohen

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Gary Pinkerton hosts Dr. Robert Cohen, Army veteran, physician, scientist, and host of the Democrises podcast. They take a look at how sustainable economic development is the biggest issue of our generation. Robert explains the demographic crisis and the 3 big mistakes we all make. He explains that the quickest way to control the increasing population is to improve the quality of life.

Announcer 0:04
Welcome to the heroic investing show. As first responders we risk our lives every day our financial security is under attack. Our pensions are in a state of emergency. A single on duty incident can alter or erase our earning potential instantly and forever. We are the heroes of society. We are self reliant, and we need to take care of our own financial future. The heroic investing show is our toolkit of business and investing tactics on our mission to financial freedom.

Gary Pinkerton 0:39
Hello, and welcome to Episode 183. This is Episode 183. Today we’re talking with Dr. Robert Cohen. Dr. Cohen is a physician, an army veteran, having deployed to the Middle East. He’s a scientist, a world traveler, a poverty reduction expert, and he’s creator and host of the demo crises podcast. So that’s kind of a play on democracy, right? It’s demo crises. And he’s also a man on a mission. In his words, we are making all of the mistakes of previous civilizations from allowing economic inequality, to get out of control to destroying our environment to choosing very poor leadership. So he says The good news is that there is a solution and his prescription to play on the doctor side of things. One thing that has helped past societies correct mistakes in time, is a functional media that explains the great challenges of the time, as well as the solutions that are out there. And sadly, he believes that we don’t have that right now. And he’s hoping that his podcast is getting out there and broadcasting these ideas and the need, the demand signal that’s out there right now is going to help solve that. So that’s his diagnosis and his prescription. So hopefully, Dr. Cohen through having a voice on our podcast, which I thought was a really, really good podcast. And you know, I didn’t agree with him on everything, but he’s probably a little bit more of an expert. Sometimes I just go with my gut feeling what I see and hear from all of my, you know, hundreds of clients that I meet with constantly. And people that I see when I go out and I travel and meet new audiences talk about real estate investing and talk about, you know, the more safe ways of protecting and growing capital and in cash and growing wealth for the future. I’m talking to people all the time about where they see challenges where they think problems are, we don’t agree on everything. But we agreed on those things. And I really enjoyed this conversation, found it certainly intellectually inspiring in this discussion with Dr. Robert Cohen. So I hope you enjoy it as well. And many, many more podcasts coming up in rapid succession. I appreciate all of you and your patience. In the short two week break we had to take here with my traveling and my business focus, but also greatly appreciate the substantial prodding that I got to get back on the horse. And some of that came from these awesome guests who have spent their time to be on the show with me. I really do appreciate your patience as well. These are coming in pretty quickly now. And hope you really enjoyed. There’s some awesome ones coming. Thank you so much. And enjoy Episode 183 with Dr. Robert Cohen. Well, everyone welcome back to heroic investing. And as I mentioned in the introduction, in the brief biography, we have the distinct pleasure of having Dr. Rob Cohen with us. Rob is a is an MD, now your typical MDC and patients every day, but I will, I will let Rob describe that as he gets a little bit into his background. And then we’re gonna jump right into this topic, because it’s going to be fantastic. So, Rob, first and foremost, thanks so much for joining us here on heroic investing. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. So can you explain to the layman like myself, what kind of doctor you are and and a little bit about your military background, and then what you’re doing today,

Dr Robert Cohen 3:50
So I am board certified in preventive medicine, which is its own specialty, just like pediatrics, ob gyn, general surgery or internal medicine, did my residency and preventive medicine at Walter Reed, it basically means public health for doctors, so it’s a lot of doctors see patients every day, but for issues where you have maybe an epidemic across the country like the measles epidemic, which is currently being a real problem and a few states of the Ebola epidemic overseas, you need clinicians that are also able to work with the public health level. And so that’s what preventive medicine doctors are trained to do. And so when I deployed with the army in 2015, I worried about things like chemical and biological weapons in the Middle East. I was stationed in Kuwait. And so that’s that story.

Gary Pinkerton 4:30
Perfect. So five years in the in the army, as you said, You’re 34 today, and obviously a practicing physician. So what do you do today? Like what what’s your typical day or week like?

Dr Robert Cohen 4:41
I work in international health. So right now, I’m worried a lot about the Ebola epidemic in Congo. So I’ll be going back to the Congo in a month to help try to finally get that outbreak under control. This is the second biggest Ebola outbreak in the world’s history after the terrible 2014 outbreak in West Africa that infected 28,000 people devastated three countries. treason killed 11,000. This one is really a threat to Congo. So I work on that I do analyses for the US government, on our international health programs in general, because we have a lot of places around the world where we help on things like HIV, malaria, maternal and child health. And, and I contract to the US government to do that.

Gary Pinkerton 5:17
Nice. And you’re located out of Washington, DC. Yes. Awesome. All right. grew up, I think on the Northeast, is that right? You mentioned college up in Harvard.

Dr Robert Cohen 5:24
Yeah, Harvard undergrad, although I grew up in San Diego, California, and I go, but that was nice place. But I, I’m very interested in the international problems we say. So we talked about this a lot on our podcasts, you know, we’re becoming a very interconnected world. And a lot of these global problems don’t stay overseas. And so it’s easier to focus on those when you’re stationed on the east coast and the West Coast. Also my military, I was stationed on the East Coast at Walter Reed, as well as another base over here. And so I’m become pretty much a coaster in in mentality.

Gary Pinkerton 5:53
Very cool. Okay, so you’ve got a website demo crisis, demo crisis.com. So first of all, that should be a title of your book coming up here. And it’s just an awesome title. It certainly sucks you in to see exactly what it’s about. And you mentioned that you’ve kind of broken it down into three different seasons and have finished season one. And that’s what we’re going to focus on. Walk us through that, if you would,

Dr Robert Cohen 6:12
We on the demo crises podcast, which you can also find at demo crisis or demo crises calm, we are very concerned about what’s happening in the world, a lot of problems are accelerated, just for example, the global human population never crossed a billion until 1820. And then now it has skyrocketed, we hit 2 billion, and I believe 1911 3 billion in 1960. And now it’s 7 billion. So the human population is really increasing, our technological capacities are really increasing and the devastation of what it’s doing to our planet is just one problem. We look around the world, we see a lot of democracies that really do not seem to be up to the task of dealing with 21st century challenges. And but we’ve also developed so many advances, there’s a tension between all of our good achievements, and all of the dangerous, unprecedented things we’re causing to our society. And so if we want to live in a good world, instead of a bad world, we have to solve the problems and maintain the good ones. And that involves not just status quo we are, you know, as we research, the first season on the global crisis of democracy, we have found at not surprisingly, that America and the world are all making a lot of the same mistakes of previous civilizations that reached really impressive heights and then collapse places like ancient Rome, ancient Greece, ancient Athens, medieval France, medieval England, 19th century England, Ching Dynasty and Ming Dynasty, China, all of these societies, reached really impressive heights and thought they would be exceptional forever. And then very quickly discovered that that was not in fact, the case, because they had reached beyond their their carrying capacity. And the love the laws of exponential growth means that things, once they start to accelerate, they really accelerate. And so we are we look at the research, which has been done, which, you know, all of our researchers are working on, and we see solutions, there are solutions, or one of the podcast guests we talked to told us, you know, 90% of societies that reached this point collapse, but 10% don’t. And so what’s different about those 10%? And I’m sure we’ll get into that,

Gary Pinkerton 8:01
yeah, well, let’s go there. So some of the biggest maybe top five mistakes that we are repeating from Rome and Athens, and you know, any others?

Dr Robert Cohen 8:10
Yeah. And so speaking of which fruits are the topic of your podcast, right? So it’s about investing. And yeah, one of the big challenges is if your society goes through a decline, and it really hits people’s wallets, and investments pretty hard, right, when when the currency gets devalued, for example, your investments really lose their value very, very fast. And that stinks for each individual person, and, of course, really severely, and then, of course, leads to a lot of societal unrest is they kind of blame the elites who have kind of failed everybody else for that. So So what are the mistakes that we’re making, like many other one of our guests on, which we talked to in Episode Two, says the three big mistakes that that we really make are letting inequality get out of control. So when inequality is out of control, the really rich people live this ridiculously opulent life. And the poor people suffer a lot. And the rich people, of course, control the government don’t pay any of the taxes, and they tax the peasants in ancient China or Ancient Greece or whoever, to tax them harder and harder and harder to the point where the peasants eventually, like they can’t pay it. And they revolt, for example, in 17th century China. That’s when opium really took off. And you look around America, the opiate epidemic today, and you say, Wow, that looks pretty similar. So the first thing is really out of control inequality, leading to the suffering of the lower middle class, the suffering of lower middle classes, a lot of people that fit that description, and they are pretty unhappy right now, no matter what they look like, no matter where they live in the country, whether they’re on the far left, the far the color of their skin or where they came from. They’re all suffering that’s consistent with what happened in a lot of these ancient societies. The second thing that he talks about is what he calls elite conflict or elite incompetence or elite overproduction. So basically, when you have a population that is getting very large, there’s a limited number Have elite positions. And so there’s one President, for example. And so what you get is fierce competition among the super rich for the elite positions. And there are lots of examples of this. And basically what they do is they try to milk more and more money from the state for their own benefit. And that lasts for a while. And then eventually it doesn’t write eventually, you run out of other people’s money, as Margaret Thatcher once said, and so that would be Problem number two is this challenge. And we propose potential solutions for that, which we could talk about. And then the third one is the collapse of the state finances. So you look at our $22 trillion debt. And it’s at the highest level since World War Two. And everyone says, Oh, I see. And World War Two, it was fine. But the thing is, right after world war two was a pretty unique situation. United States was the only industrial power on earth, it was not destroyed by World War Two in every other country on Earth owed us money. And we had the demographic dividend coming back from all of Russia’s, you know, Russia lost, like, what 20 million men in World War Two or something like that, like they were completely destroyed, where we had the advantage of a much bigger and more productive workforce compared to all these other countries. So we got out of it after World War Two. But that was a very unique time. The world is not like that today. And you look at our $22 trillion debt. And you really worry about that those are my top three. But there are others that we could also talk about, which is the environmental destruction, I’ll give you a course one. So terrible environmental destruction that we’re doing to the planet. I mean, the rate of deforestation rate of animal extinctions is 1000 times higher than baseline. I don’t remember the exact numbers. But the typical rate of extinction of animals is like one species every thousand years or something like that. We’re at a species one every two years are going extinct right now. And that’s also accelerating as the human population escalates, and does more and more damage to the environment. And there are books about how societies have overpopulated destroyed their environment and then collapsed. And we’re really worried about that. We need to start reversing it yesterday.

Gary Pinkerton 11:52
What’s your method of reverse? I mean, is it the democratic one, where we’ll control the people and control the pregnancy and birth rates? And that kind of stuff for I mean,

Dr Robert Cohen 12:00
yeah, I mean, it’s, it’s hard, it’s hard to get every solution in a short period time, we’re gonna have to, we’re basically all problems, you know, just so I’m a physician, right? So when you’ve got a patient who’s very sick, right, there’s a lot of things that can kill the patient, you got a patient in the ICU, let’s say, they’ve got cancer, but they’ve also got their clotting factors don’t work anymore, and their lungs don’t work anymore. And their brain has kind of stopped functioning, right? Any one of those things can kill the patient. And so a good doctor in the ICU is going to have to treat every single one and do it with the best available medicine. And it’s really hard to do. So. I mean, just if you ask how do we solve our overpopulation problem? That is a really good question and probably involves taking a hard look at a lot of our societal values, because we have this belief that we should just everybody should have as many kids as they want and damn the consequences. And, you know, I understand why they feel that way. The alternative seems pretty unappealing. On the other hand, there was a famous social scientist who said, the freedom to overpopulate will eventually cost us all our other freedoms, we’re gonna have to confront that eventually. And Americans like to not complain until it’s kind of too late, or overwhelming evidence of a problem. And I would argue that we’re kind of there. And it’s even worse, if you go overseas, you go to a place like India, for example, which has just, you know, severely overpopulated. And they’ve tons of people living in poverty, millions of people living in pretty severe poverty. So there’s a middle class and it’s growing, finally, but they’re trying to introduce mandatory birth control legislation, actually, because they simply cannot build the infrastructure to keep up with a population growth like this. We talked to a guest in Episode 13, and pointed out, you know, Egypt in 1980, had a population of 40 million. Today, it’s 91 million, that means Hosni Mubarak would have had to build enough infrastructure to deal with and jobs in a desert to deal with 50 million new poor people. That’s basically impossible. And so you look at the Arab Spring, you think Hosni Mubarak couldn’t deal with it, I, I don’t know how anybody could have dealt with that. And so these are really hard. Another another one of the insights we realize is through all our researches, societies that succeed, according to Jared Diamond, who’s my favorite author of the book about environmental collapse, he said, those are the societies that recognize the societal values that are damaging to their own society and change them before it’s too late. It’s not fun to change societal values, it’s really unpleasant actually involves sort of an identity crisis. But the alternative is pretty ugly. For example, let’s take the American Civil War, right? There was a societal value about slavery, they thought slavery was good. There were a lot of people that kind of enjoyed that situation. Yet, it was untenable, and they had to change that societal value to preserve their society. And ultimately they did but in between, they didn’t do it easily. And it costs a civil war of 800,000 dead and pretty terrible legacy. So ideally in intelligent civilization recognize these problems and change before a lot of these tragedies or see what’s right and just do it abolish slavery without needing to have a Have a war over it. But unfortunately, humanity doesn’t always do that. And that’s what we call the global crisis of demoralization.

Gary Pinkerton 15:06
Well, I completely agree with you that we can change values without imposing one person’s values on another. I mean, the other side of the of the Civil War was that there were people who didn’t necessarily like slaving other people, but they did like to retain the goods and services that they had provided, rather than give them to to the north, which was really what was happening to them. I mean, I didn’t come from the south, but it wasn’t just about imposing White will on black. I mean, I think you would agree with that.

Dr Robert Cohen 15:30
Oh, yeah. I mean, the South had a way of life. And the North had a different, totally different business model. Instead of agriculture. It was industrialization, and

Gary Pinkerton 15:38
but what about like developing societies and the trends that happen there with respect to population, like the US population, you know, is leveling and could go down if we if we didn’t have a lot of immigration, right. So I mean, a lot of our population goes up. But a lot of it’s happening from people who are first generation Americans or not legal Americans, population in Japan going down, if I understand the demographics correctly, and China has with their one child policy that they’ve gotten rid of could have caused that may still cause that in a population that has been rapidly rising. And one of the philosophies I’ve read there is that, you know, the quickest way to control populations is clean water, and good food. And, you know, having having the ability to not, no other options not not have to produce so many kids have, you know, have a goal for a future for your children. I mean, one of the reasons why most people in America have fewer kids is because they want to be able to send them all to college and do all this stuff. And it costs too much to do that. So we make a conscious decision not to is that is there any, any validation there, based on what you kind of what you’ve looked at?

Dr Robert Cohen 16:41
Yeah, everything you said is correct. demography is complicated. If population goes up too fast, that’s a problem. But if population growth rates drop precipitously, and you suddenly have a very old country, and then the only way to sustain population is to bring in other people that have a different culture. And that happens really fast. That’s a different demographic problem, which is still a problem, which we are also experiencing, in many ways in a lot of the West. And so why are we doing it so that we have found that the age at first marriage and the age at first birth in the United States is increasing. And there are social scientists who say that that’s the sign of a pessimistic society. Because if you get married young as they did, after World War Two, you’re optimistic, you’re getting married young, you’re having kids, young, everything looks great. But if you’re worried that the next few years are going to bring a financial collapse and major political unrest, you might wait to have kids, you might wait to make that commitment. And we’re seeing that. And so this gets back to the problem of it’s really a symptom of our societal afflictions. In general, what would be really nice is if life wasn’t quite so hard, and people were able to sort of live a balanced life where they’re able to have a reasonably sized family have a job, where if to get ahead doesn’t require working really hard. So basically, you know, the birth rates in America are really, also and Europe, there’s significant separation, the hard working middle class really is postponing having kids, but the more economically challenged people in the country have lots of children. So the birth rates in poor communities is actually rather high. And they don’t have a lot of optimism for the future, which is, which would be much better if we gave those people more optimism. And we made the burden on sort of the middle class a little bit easier, you know, went for let’s talk about maternity leave, right? It’s not set up well, in America right now for middle class women to hold down a job and go have a baby and be able to come back into the workforce. And that means a lot of people’s wives, if you want a wife who’s a career woman, she often has to go breastfeed in the bathroom at work, like do you really you know, nobody wants that. It’s really, it’s really hard. And we need to find a way to You know, I realize economics, you want to find a way to make everybody as productive as possible. But you know, these are big challenges in our society that are leading to audio, all this all this general anxiety and suffering that we’re feeling they’re all sort of one straw after another from all these different problems. And, and we really have to find a way to solve each of them.

Gary Pinkerton 18:56
Do you think that technology that you know, holding people accountable socially, will have a continued positive impact? Like my example is North Korea, right? So So North Korea, people are probably not as aware maybe many places in Africa similar, because they don’t have access to the internet, they don’t have access to communications as well. They are able to be lied to or they’re able to have a distorted reality. But if you have the capability, the means and the health to have access to things like that, it’s more difficult to be lied to on a global scale. Like I have trouble personally, believing that North Korea today will ever go back to where North Korea was even 10 years ago, or that concentration camps could happen again, in secrecy. What are your thoughts there?

Dr Robert Cohen 19:46
I never want to say never, you know, I think that’s the thing about these previous societies. They looked good everything Life was good. In China in the 1700s. They thought they were the peak civilization on earth. And yet Problems got really bad and maybe, you know, maybe there wouldn’t be concentration camps. But what happened in that case is China thought it would be the most dominant power on earth and they dismissed Japan and Britain as trifling irritations. And then once China crumbled from within Britain showed up, dominated them in the first second Opium War. And you know, basically subjugated China caused untold misery, multiple rebellions, lots of their population declined from all the all the famine and a civil war. And 100 years later, Japan invaded and commit unspeakable atrocities. So, you know, ancient Rome, but it was a glorious civilization for 1000 years. And yesterday day made all the mistakes, and they solved a lot of problems. And so there was a fascinating study, one historian found 210 proposed reasons for the fall of Rome, everything from malaria, to barbarians, to public baths to feminization to, like literally everything you come up with, and most of us are probably wrong. The lesson is that complex societies do solve many problems. But as exponential growth happens, not just population, but exponential growth of all the problems, eventually those lines crossed, and the problems accelerate faster than the human ability to adapt. And a lot of other authors are saying that right now, including Tom Friedman’s recent book, and so when these problems, get out of control, like what happens when the overfishing that we’re doing to the oceans causes all the fish to basically not be able to support our even larger population, so many people depend on fish for protein, when that food source suddenly dries up in 10 1520 years, like, what the heck is going to happen? Like when let’s say climate change gets a little bit worse. And all these droughts that we’re seeing in the Midwest, that are affecting our food production suddenly become a larger problem, or maybe these immigration crisis? We aren’t you say there’s no, you know, can’t imagine concentration camps. There is this crisis happening on the border with kids, at least being separated from the parents for a political issue? I don’t really want to get into the current president very much. But there are there are things that are happening right now, that look pretty ugly. There are human rights abuses in many places. And as life gets harder, eventually Something has to give and humanity has shown before that, even though we said it couldn’t have happened. Our concern is, well, it could if we don’t act intelligently,

Gary Pinkerton 22:15
I wouldn’t I wouldn’t go so far as to be not even say that it can’t happen. And I acknowledge that, you know, for example, the this take Uber, right, so you’re riding on Uber, and now there’s a social accountability that goes both ways. So I mean, you can be rude to your Uber driver, or he could be rude to you. But it was, you know, first generation was that the ruber driver can’t be rude, or he won’t get any more rides, right? Taxi drivers used to be ridiculously rude and used to steal from people, especially in foreign countries. And that just doesn’t happen anymore, because they’re held socially accountable. And so that, you know, might be getting a little pollyannish there, but I will, I will say that once you get hungry, or or you feel like you’re threatened, right, then stealing the Uber car and beating him up and getting rid of him, you know, all that stuff is probably back on the table. Social accountability doesn’t matter so much when you’re fighting for survival, I will, I will acknowledge that. I just believe that it’s a knowledge is a Pandora’s box, it’s hard to put the lid back on. And least that’s my optimistic view, that when you spread all of the world’s knowledge across the globe, really hard to put it back in the box.

Dr Robert Cohen 23:18
Here. The way I like to frame it is we’re in a race between our better angels and our worst thing, we have both that’s very obvious. And you know, the way I like to frame it is if I asked you, Gary, what is the percent chance that our society is doomed? You would say, Well, you know, is it 100% chance? You would say? Absolutely not. We’ve solved big problems before. But if I asked you, you know, is the chance that we’re doomed zero percent, you would have to say no, because the history looks pretty bad, which means the chance of a big societal tragedy is between zero and 100%, which means it’s possible, but it depends on what we do. And so that means it’s up to us like we are characters in a movie whose ending is not written. And that’s kind of exciting for me. But it could end really badly or it could end sort of gloriously and actually another episode on our podcast, so there’s, there’s this concept in astronomy called a type one civilization. Can I talk about that for a minute, please? So type one civilization was put forward by an astronomer in the 60s, basically, this concept of, we look out at the world and we say, you know, it’s an infinite universe, there are billions of planets approximately the right distance from their stars as Earth is where we should find intelligent life, yet, we have found no evidence of any intelligent life. And so there was a famous physicist who put forward something called the Fermi paradox. He said, in an infinite universe of infinite, you know, billions of planets just at the right place. Why have we found no evidence of intelligent life and his these are one of the theses these Well, it’s the nature of intelligent life to destroy ourselves. So the goal of these planetary civilizations would be to develop a civilization in which they harness enough technology to harness enough energy apparent star to achieve sustainability on their planet so that they can live long enough to act productively in, in the galaxy and I know that sounds very science fictiony but there’s a recent book written about this by an astronomer named Adam Frank, that one could look at Michio Kaku, famous physicists talks about this in his book as well. So just promise, trust me that it’s not totally science fictiony. But the point is we are a type zero civilization, we get our energy from the ground. And in doing so we’re sort of slowly destroying the planet. And so what we have to do is make the transition from a type zero civilization that burns fuels from the ground to become a type one civilization that harnesses energy from the sun. Tom Friedman calls that a transition from burning fuels from hell to fuels from heaven, which is a nice metaphor. And if we can do that, then we can build this great civilization on earth instead of fulfilling the Fermi Paradox showing that it is the nature of intelligent life to destroy ourselves.

Gary Pinkerton 25:45
That’s fascinating. I think you referenced the book there Did you other than famines so

Dr Robert Cohen 25:48
so first of all, we could learn about this on episode 12 of season one of the democrats these podcasts which we recently released, but the books relevant in this case are Michio Kaku, famous physicist, wrote a book called physics of the future is going to Adam Frank, who wrote a book called, I think, the light of the star that’s just out about a couple months ago. And both of them talked about type one civilization.

Gary Pinkerton 26:09
Very cool. All right, I’m going there. But and we’re running out of time, but we can’t leave until you tell me how Teddy Roosevelt solved all of the problems that we currently faced.

Dr Robert Cohen 26:19
What I’d like to do is tease that a little bit. I’ll give I’ll give a little bit. But yeah, so that our favorite episodes from season one, episode seven. So basically, Teddy Roosevelt, his own party didn’t want him to be president, because he was such a good guy, that they didn’t want him to come in and break their stranglehold on the public dollars. And so they tried to bury him in the vice presidency. That was the one place they couldn’t do Teddy, Teddy Roosevelt couldn’t do any damage to the entrenched corruption that was in both parties, Democrats and the Republicans. So and then William McKinley got shot at the buffalo Pan American expedition by an anarchist, a random event in history. And suddenly this guy, Teddy Roosevelt gets ushered into the presidency. And he faces a country that is falling apart at the seams, rising economic inequality. We talked about that earlier, due to massive technological change. robber barons that controlled 90% of their industry vicious partisan hatred between Republicans and Democrats, over pretty much every issue you can come up with, including race, but also labor versus capital, partisan media that was totally full of lies on all sides. And Teddy Roosevelt takes this challenging situation and solves it he launched the American Century, he took a society that was in brilliant decline, if you look at a lot of numbers, and actually the agent first marriage, that was one mentioned thing I mentioned earlier, if you look at the data on that, from one of our podcasts, yes, that started to go finally down again in 1900, right after Teddy Roosevelt’s comes in and solves everything. And so what I will simply say is, it was not just about him, there was a secret ingredient that was also present, then that is not present now. And our solution is that that is the thing that we have to change. And you and I and all of us have actually some control over that secret ingredient. And if you push me on it, I’ll tell you what it is that I’m trying to teach. That’s kata Right, well, everybody just go to demo crises.com slash podcasts in there. You can learn more about Rob and his initiatives and all of the incredible research that has been going on here to support this. Season One is behind them, they’re heading on to season two, and then three will follow but it’s episode seven. So jump out there. It’s called Mavericks and muckrakers. So go find it. And I think teasing was perfect. Thanks so much, Rob. Any any last parting thoughts there before we close this up? Yeah, my last parting thoughts are in this movie with its unwritten ending. And other another thing we’ve really shown is it actually every human being can play a much bigger role than they think they can. So we all actually have a role in this drama that’s unfolding in front of us. And we can either be part of the problem, the solution, or just somebody sort of watching it happen and not contributing. And I encourage all of us to really think about where are our unique talents? And how can we apply them to this goal of building a type one civilization and avoiding civilizational collapse?

Gary Pinkerton 29:06
Fantastic. That’s awesome. Well, thanks so much, Rob, that that was beautiful, falls right in line with my vision to help others put in place maybe not quite as exciting, but some some passive income, whether it’s real estate or otherwise, so that they can get back that one viable thing, which is their time, till they can provide that unique genius to the rest of us. So that that’s really my my secret formula, I guess, or my goal I concur with that is a better way. So well. Thanks so much, Dr. Cohen, and everyone run over to his website, you know, to find out much more, I think you’re going to get pretty excited about what you see. Rob, really appreciate you giving 30 minutes to to me and to this awesome audience.

Dr Robert Cohen 29:46
Thanks, Gary.

Jason Hartman 29:49
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